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-   -   stupid framing question (http://www.diychatroom.com/f19/stupid-framing-question-17435/)

amakarevic 02-21-2008 01:30 PM

stupid framing question
 
okay, i have never done framing, although i have no doubt i will get the hang of it quickly.

hence the following question:

when doing indoor framing (basement apartment), do i assemble a wall or a portion of a wall (sills and to them perpendicular studs) before i put it in its final place (e.g. do it on the floor) or do i actually assemble it in its final place (e.g. shoot the sole plate in alone, then set the top sill that attaches to the ceiling beams, making sure it is directly above using a laser, than put the studs in between) ?

a book that i have suggests the former (assemble outside, then set it in). i was skeptical of the approach in my particular case as the ceiling is already set and i was afraid that, if the height from the bottom of the sole to the top of the top sill is exactly the same as from the concrete to the beams in the ceiling, the diagonal will be longer slightly but enough not to be able to raise it in place.

hopefully my post makes sense ...

thanks,

- a -

perpetual98 02-21-2008 01:38 PM

I think you'll find that you'll end up doing a combination of building the wall flat and standing it up and building them in place depending on the circumstances.

Regarding the diagonal being slightly longer, it's amazing how some whacking with a hammer will overcome that. :)

Also, if you do a top plate, then build the wall on the floor, you'll essentially have 2 top plates and the diagonal becomes moot. That way you have a full board to attach sheetrock too at the top.

amakarevic 02-21-2008 01:43 PM

huh
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by perpetual98 (Post 100089)
Also, if you do a top plate, then build the wall on the floor, you'll essentially have 2 top plates and the diagonal becomes moot. That way you have a full board to attach sheetrock too at the top.

i don't get this although it seems you are onto something ... more details/pics ?

thx,

- a -

perpetual98 02-21-2008 02:05 PM

It depends on what you're doing with your ceiling. In my case, I'm using 2x2 furring strips attached to the bottom of my floor joists (which are covered on the bottom by 1/2" plywood) Since the 2x2 would be the same thickness of the top or cap plate of my walls, I would have nothing to secure the wall drywall to when I went to put that up. But having both a top plate and a cap plate, the horizontal 2x4 wall framing will be far enough below the ceiling that I can secure the wall sheetrock to it.

Then again, I might be a complete moron and doing it 100% wrong, which has happened to me in the past. :)

perpetual98 02-21-2008 02:20 PM

This is kinda what I'm talking about from the Howstuffworks website...

http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/house-wall.gif

yummy mummy 02-21-2008 03:25 PM

First, no question is stupid.

I framed my basement, and I used a top plate, a bottom plate, and then studs at 16 inch centers.

Unless your room is completed straight and level, in my opinion, building it on the floor and then raising to put it up, would be rather difficult to do.

Stick building in the long run is faster.

I used the book Build like a Pro, by Roger German.

Good luck.

gb

amakarevic 02-21-2008 03:42 PM

Stick building
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by yummy mummy (Post 100117)
Stick building in the long run is faster.

what is "Stick building" ?

thx,

- a -

redline 02-21-2008 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amakarevic (Post 100121)
what is "Stick building" ?

thx,

- a -

Built in place aka stick built.

AtlanticWBConst. 02-21-2008 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amakarevic (Post 100088)
...when doing indoor framing (basement apartment), do i assemble a wall or a portion of a wall (sills and to them perpendicular studs) before i put it in its final place (e.g. do it on the floor)

....or do i actually assemble it in its final place (e.g. shoot the sole plate in alone, then set the top sill that attaches to the ceiling beams, making sure it is directly above using a laser, than put the studs in between) ?.......hopefully my post makes sense ...



I think I understand.

Basically, what you are asking is:

1.) Do I stick-build the framed walls (Plates and studded in)?
2.) Do I pre-build the walls (stand them up and nail them)?

Answer: It depends on the home.

Newer construction homes that have fairly uniform concrete basement floors and joists, will have less deviation in the floor to ceiling height dimensions.
Thus, the quickest way to frame, may be, to pre-build your walls and stand them up. The way to determine this is to: Draw your floor layouts (where the walls will go) on your concrete floor. Take measurements from the floor to ceiling at each end of a wall length. Longer walls; take more incremental measurements. If it is within 1/2", then pre-build the walls sections (using same measurement length studs), stand the section, plumb it, then fasten bottom and top plates. Repeat for the next wall section. Where there is a height diference, use shims before nailing into the overhead joists, strapping, or blocking.

Older homes often have very uneven, unlevel areas. Concret efloors that are not even close in the even-ness of their surface areas (non-uniform). Joists that may be "off" by inches, or settled greatly. In that case, often the best method is to stick-frame the walls: Install bottom plate, install top plate, install studs as needed (at various lengths).

pavola 02-21-2008 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by perpetual98 (Post 100104)
This is kinda what I'm talking about from the Howstuffworks website...

http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/house-wall.gif

If you'd like to pre-build the walls like this, just nail the 2nd top plate to the ceiling first, then assemble the wall with a bottom and top plate, stand it upright and slip it under the 2nd plate. That would eliminate the hypotenuse issue. Pre-cut the studs with a slight clearance and shim as needed.

AtlanticWBConst. 02-22-2008 07:35 AM

FWIW: Do not confuse the double top plate wall design, with what is required to build basement partition walls. The double top plate design (like the diagram shows) is for structural exterior walls. That second plate (top) allows 2 walls to be tied into eachother. Example: 2 exterior walls meeting at an outside 90 degrees. The 2nd top plate "caps-over" the existing top plate, and ties them together.

You do not need to do this in basement walls that are non-strucutural in nature and desgn. It is unecessary. A simple top plate and bottom (sole) plate arrangement is all that is needed.

DIY4EVER 02-22-2008 11:02 AM

Do exactly as Atlantic just said......two top plates is not necessary when builiding "partition" walls for a basement. when i finished my basement I marked all my walls on the floor with a sharpie. From these marks, use a straight 2x4 and a 6' level and plumb the 2x4 up to the ceiling and make marks where the top plate will hit the joists. Snap a chalk line on the floor marks and the joist marks and now you have two lines directly over one another to use as quides for your top and bottom plates.

Frame your walls on the floor, cutting each stud equal length so that the final overall height of the framed wall (bottom plate, stud, top plate) is ~ 1/2" shorter than the shortest floor to ceiling measurement. Stand the walls up and align the marks on the floor and ceiling with the top and bottom plate, level them, plumb them, nail them in real good (will probably need shims between top plate and joists), repeat for next wall....before you know it you'll have your walls done and be on to your next headache.

Rustaholic 02-23-2008 03:29 PM

Here is what I would do in MY basement if I already had a finished ceiling in place.
Since it is a concrete floor I want treated lumber on the floor.
I would nail down a treated 2x4 then measure and build my wall on the floor.
Frame it an eighth of an inch short if you don't want to use a big hammer.
Then it will be 1 1/2" short so it will stand up and with the top where you want it pick up the wall and slide it onto the treated 2X4.
YES, You only need one top plate.


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