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Old 02-12-2012, 09:02 PM   #16
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Stone veneer meets siding...flashing?


I have inspected hundreds of homes with mold/water problems and the major causes are the window installations (estimated 65% improperly installed), flashing (anywhere) or a combination of the two. It is surprising how many builders have window certified installation subcontractors instead of their own carpenters install windows because of history and insurance liability. - It is only a 2 day class and test to become certified.

Some people recognize the need to ALWAYS shed the water away in every part of a wall even if the initial concern is to prevent freezing expansion or leakage since that is just an excuse to justify bad workmanship on a singular problem that could grow to be worse in the future.

Dick

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Old 02-12-2012, 09:16 PM   #17
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Stone veneer meets siding...flashing?


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Originally Posted by jomama45 View Post
THIS is the most important part, as I mentioned earlier. Make sure the aluminum flashing is BEHIND the WRB (Tyvek or similar product) so that it does not send needless moisture behind the cultured stone & create more issues.




You've got the right idea there. You will want to bend the flashing at about a 2" top leg, then bend ~70-75 degrees so it exerts constant pressure on the stone sill, then ~ 1.5" with at least a hem at the end to strengthen it. If you have access to a brake, it's extremely easy. I'm just a "Dumb" mason, and I bend them up all the time.

As for the sill, We most often use Indiana Bedford stone sill material that is 2.25" thick by 3" deep. We can get lengths up to 8', so it really minimizes the joints, making it look more realistic IMO. You'll also want to set the sills at a min. 10% pitch away from the house, 15% is even better if you can get them to stay..............
Good post Joe but that would be 110- 115 degrees.
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Old 02-13-2012, 07:12 AM   #18
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Stone veneer meets siding...flashing?


keep the 2 systems separate,works on the top of your chimney

but if you feel the need,i would pull the first 2 courses,then flash

watch the height of the sill,you need to maintain enough room to lock the panel back [about 3/4''] into the starter or you will need to j it

pressure bends over time can ''lose'' pressure from expansion and movement

Last edited by Tom Struble; 02-13-2012 at 07:16 AM.
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Old 02-13-2012, 10:14 AM   #19
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Stone veneer meets siding...flashing?


How do I go about getting the sills at a good pitch and getting them to stay?
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Old 02-13-2012, 10:08 PM   #20
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Stone veneer meets siding...flashing?


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Good post Joe but that would be 110- 115 degrees.
Here's my thinking: If it's 180 degrees when you start, and put 70-75 degrees bend into it, it ends up at 110-115 degrees......


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How do I go about getting the sills at a good pitch and getting them to stay?
They should wedge fairly easily if you have the flashing in place, and you only leave about 3" from the top of stone to the highest point in the flashing. We typically lay cultured stone from the top downward to minimize mortar-dropping stains on lower stonework, and doing so also gives us a better selection of thicker stones at the top of the wall, which helps support the sill also.

You can also look into the matching cultured sills/watertables that most every manufacturer makes, as the back of them installs square to the wall and the top has the pitch built into it.
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Old 02-14-2012, 09:15 AM   #21
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Stone veneer meets siding...flashing?


don't pre install the flashing you will get better results removing the siding and flashing directly on to it,the vinyl is easy to r&r,pull enough so you can loosen up the corners and get decent bends
seal and interlock the seams

i would install some clips to help keep the metal tight to the stone

sorta like this but nailed to the wall

if your going to do it do it nice
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Old 02-14-2012, 09:29 AM   #22
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Stone veneer meets siding...flashing?


.......

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Old 02-15-2012, 03:41 AM   #23
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Stone veneer meets siding...flashing?


What do you mean by don't pre install the flashing? Do you mean install the stone ledge (watertable/sill) first and then the flashing?.....as I was doing more research I've found where others have installed weep screen at the bottom. Is this something I need to consider? I planned on landscaping with mulch so the stone wouldnt be in direct contact with the ground/dirt but would be with the mulch
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Old 02-15-2012, 06:26 AM   #24
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Stone veneer meets siding...flashing?


yes,you will get better results....but that would just be my opinion

the weep hole thing i would defer to the masons/concrete guys

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Old 02-15-2012, 06:44 AM   #25
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Stone veneer meets siding...flashing?


Tom's probably right about installing it afterwards, but Im sure he's a perfectionist.....

If you install it later, you'll need to remove enough siding that you can temporarily mount at least a 2x2 to wedge the top of the sill to.

As for the weep screed, it won't help you one bit unless you were to install a drainage plain against the entire foundation, which means you would also have to install lath & plaster over it. It's much simpler to just adhere right to the concrete.
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Old 02-15-2012, 06:57 AM   #26
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Stone veneer meets siding...flashing?


Thanks a lot guys, it's starting to make a lot of sense now. I pulled a piece of vinyl siding off the starter strip, looks like I'll have enough room to put up a temporary 2x2 for a wedge, I like that idea....1 more question and I'll let u all get on. After the watertable stone is installed should I have someone with a break do the flashing? Or is it possible for me to put the flashing up and leave enough at the bottom to fold along the crease of the wall/watertable?
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Old 02-15-2012, 08:26 AM   #27
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Stone veneer meets siding...flashing?


your going to flash the entire top of the sill?

how i would think you would do it is to temporarily fasten a 2x to the foundation the height of the sill plus grout line,run your stone up to this then remove the 2x and lay an angled bed of mortar then set your sill

i don't understand how you can properly tool the joint behind the sill and inbetween if you pre install the flashing
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Old 02-15-2012, 08:32 AM   #28
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Stone veneer meets siding...flashing?


Quote:
Originally Posted by jomama45 View Post
Tom's probably right about installing it afterwards, but Im sure he's a perfectionist.....

If you install it later, you'll need to remove enough siding that you can temporarily mount at least a 2x2 to wedge the top of the sill to.

As for the weep screed, it won't help you one bit unless you were to install a drainage plain against the entire foundation, which means you would also have to install lath & plaster over it. It's much simpler to just adhere right to the concrete.

jo this is why i questioned flashing the sill,couldn't the sill actually be the flashing? wouldn't the stone and poured foundation actually be monolithic so the grout between the stone sill and foundation be adequate?

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Old 02-15-2012, 09:49 AM   #29
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Stone veneer meets siding...flashing?


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jo this is why i questioned flashing the sill,couldn't the sill actually be the flashing? wouldn't the stone and poured foundation actually be monolithic so the grout between the stone sill and foundation be adequate?

This is what I always thought and was trying to avoid the while flashing process. But the main concern is water running down the back of vinyl siding and the flashing is to divert that water over top of the stone so that it doesn't get behind the stone and cause the stone to pop off. Am I right in that assumption?...,,,now that being said I contacted my builder who built my house last year to get his take on it and he says he doesn't flash in this situation. He says the stone and mortar will naturally soak up water and the amount of water that will get behind the wall from not flashing is minimal....any truth to that?
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Old 02-15-2012, 04:29 PM   #30
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Stone veneer meets siding...flashing?


i don't know but if the masonry pro's on here say flash it,then flash it

i don't like it when Dick yells at me

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