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-   -   Stone veneer meets siding...flashing? (http://www.diychatroom.com/f19/stone-veneer-meets-siding-flashing-133134/)

heinlein0311 02-09-2012 10:39 AM

Stone veneer meets siding...flashing?
 
1 Attachment(s)
Hey, this spring I want to tackle installing stone veneer around our poured concrete foundation. The basic installation seems pretty straight forward. But I'm having problems finding information about flashing. As you can see in the pic I've attached, I have a couple foundation walls that are out of the ground quite a ways. What do I do about where the siding and stone will meet? Is there any flashing that needs to be done, or some sort of transition piece? Once the stone is installed it will stick out farther than the siding so I'm afraid of standing water. How about the windows? How do I flash around those and then install over the flashing? Love this forum, you all gave been a great help in the past!

jklingel 02-09-2012 12:41 PM

Flashing is an absolute. I think if you look on buildingscience.com you will find details similar to what you need to do. Are you in a cold zone? That exposed concrete is going to suck the btu's out, and it may be worth installing 2" of rigid foam outside while you are at it. Here is a link for window flashing on greenbuildingadvisor.com. Poke around there, too. http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/...dows-and-doors

jomama45 02-11-2012 12:59 PM

You certainly need to install an aluminum flashing, or something similar, behind the siding/starter-strip/Tyvek above. I would recommend using a sill at the top of the wall as well.

heinlein0311 02-11-2012 04:33 PM

I talked to the stone dealer and I am going to run a sill between the stone and siding. ...I understand placing the flashing underneath the starter strip but do I bend it near the bottom and adhere it to the top of the sill or do something else with it?

joecaption 02-11-2012 04:52 PM

Once you see how far the stone is going to pertrude away from the wall you will have a better idea on how it's going to have to be done.
Most often a 2 X 4 set in a bed of silicone on the stone to 2 X 4 area that's nailed to the wall with a 45 deg. angle cut at the top will act as a form for the coil stock sit againt.
I make it 4" at the top where it's going to be under the siding then the 2 45 deg. bends to get to fit tight againt the 2 X 4 then at least 1-1/2 past the stone with a hem at the bottom to keep the metal from waving along it's lenght.
DO not face nail the coil stock if you do it may buckel. Instead the top first bend is bent so it causes the metal to be sprung tight to the 2 X 4 and oval holes get punched so the coil stock can move instead of buckling.
The only places it may need to be nailed is on the ends.

Tom Struble 02-12-2012 12:20 PM

just hold the stone sill down alittle from the siding,what exactly will the flashing be protecting?concrete?

heinlein0311 02-12-2012 01:35 PM

I didn't even think of flashing til I started doing some research but I'm under the same impression as you were. The siding overlaps the concrete foundation about an inch. But if I install a sill, can water still find it's way in between the sill and siding? I can't imagine there would be a lot of standing water finding it's way under the siding when the sill is beveled for the purpose of diverting the water away. Am I right in assuming this? I dont want to do something wrong and pay for it down the road

Tom Struble 02-12-2012 05:05 PM

i don't see the need for any metal if you maintain a 3/4-1'' gap between the sill and the siding

joecaption 02-12-2012 05:23 PM

And how would that keep water from getting in behind the stone and poping it off when it freezes.

concretemasonry 02-12-2012 05:51 PM

Vinyl siding is in no way waterproof and you should/must have a primary water barrier behind it to protect the wood. Make sure the flashing from below comes up and is behind the primary barrier to continue to shed the water down and away. Then you can shed the water and assume the stone is durable.

Water will always find its way behind vinyl, especially due to the wind and "fluttering" during a storm. - It is just hung on the framing. Mold inspectors love to see vinyl siding and the more jogs and windows, the better for them because it is so predictable.

Dick

heinlein0311 02-12-2012 05:56 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Joecaption, I think I understand the process you stated earlier on how to build a water table. I could do the 2x4 work but would need to contract out the sheet metal stuff. I don't know how much that would start costing me.... But if I used a stone sill or even a stone water table, I would tuck the flashing underneath the siding/wrap but where would the bottom of the flashing go? Just enough flashing to lay on top of the sill to keep water out? Does it need to be secured to the sill somehow?...I'll attach a really rough drawing of how I'm interpreting doing the flashing. My art skills are not a strong suit

Tom Struble 02-12-2012 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by concretemasonry (Post 851744)
Vinyl siding is in no way waterproof and you should/must have a primary water barrier behind it to protect the wood. Make sure the flashing from below comes up and is behind the primary barrier to continue to shed the water down and away. Then you can shed the water and assume the stone is durable.

Water will always find its way behind vinyl, especially due to the wind and "fluttering" during a storm. - It is just hung on the framing. Mold inspectors love to see vinyl siding and the more jogs and windows, the better for them because it is so predictable.

Dick


not the issue here Dick


i think inspectors like to see it because it's so much easier to remove the siding than most others

install any other reservoir type cladding with the same type of underlayment details and tell me what you will see

Tom Struble 02-12-2012 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joecaption (Post 851708)
And how would that keep water from getting in behind the stone and poping it off when it freezes.


stone sill detailed right should do it

joecaption 02-12-2012 07:46 PM

The thing I do not like about a stone ledge is the fact it would be near impossable to seal on the topside, see if it's possible to set it at about a 5% angle like on a brick sill.

jomama45 02-12-2012 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by concretemasonry (Post 851744)
Vinyl siding is in no way waterproof and you should/must have a primary water barrier behind it to protect the wood. Make sure the flashing from below comes up and is behind the primary barrier to continue to shed the water down and away. Then you can shed the water and assume the stone is durable.

Water will always find its way behind vinyl, especially due to the wind and "fluttering" during a storm. - It is just hung on the framing. Mold inspectors love to see vinyl siding and the more jogs and windows, the better for them because it is so predictable.

Dick

THIS is the most important part, as I mentioned earlier. Make sure the aluminum flashing is BEHIND the WRB (Tyvek or similar product) so that it does not send needless moisture behind the cultured stone & create more issues.


Quote:

Originally Posted by heinlein0311 (Post 851754)
Joecaption, I think I understand the process you stated earlier on how to build a water table. I could do the 2x4 work but would need to contract out the sheet metal stuff. I don't know how much that would start costing me.... But if I used a stone sill or even a stone water table, I would tuck the flashing underneath the siding/wrap but where would the bottom of the flashing go? Just enough flashing to lay on top of the sill to keep water out? Does it need to be secured to the sill somehow?...I'll attach a really rough drawing of how I'm interpreting doing the flashing. My art skills are not a strong suit

You've got the right idea there. You will want to bend the flashing at about a 2" top leg, then bend ~70-75 degrees so it exerts constant pressure on the stone sill, then ~ 1.5" with at least a hem at the end to strengthen it. If you have access to a brake, it's extremely easy. I'm just a "Dumb" mason, and I bend them up all the time.

As for the sill, We most often use Indiana Bedford stone sill material that is 2.25" thick by 3" deep. We can get lengths up to 8', so it really minimizes the joints, making it look more realistic IMO. You'll also want to set the sills at a min. 10% pitch away from the house, 15% is even better if you can get them to stay.............. :thumbsup:


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