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-   -   Steps for Bathroom Remodel? (http://www.diychatroom.com/f19/steps-bathroom-remodel-27273/)

SeattleHome 09-23-2008 07:17 PM

Steps for Bathroom Remodel?
 
I sure could use some help with the steps I need to take to remodel my bathroom. I would like to do a majority of the work myself, but I do not know which steps to take first – can someone list my items in the order they should be done? I would really appreciate the help, as I am not finding the entire process in any video or online.

1) Replace old iron plumbing throughout bathroom
2) Install new Jacuzzi tub
3) replace toilet (this is what actually started this whole remodel project)
4) replace cabinet sink with pedestal sink
5) Install new tile on floor (there is currently old linoleum over original hexagon tile)
6) Install new tile on shower walls (Shower area has a regular sized window in it. I would like to remove the wood frame around the window and replace it with tile.)
7) Install new tile to wainscoting level around entire bathroom.
8) Install two recessed cabinets over toilet and pedestal sink which are side by side
9) Move lightswitch from hallway into bathroom by sink and door
10) Replace old ceiling fan
11) Install radiant heat flooring.

Other info: The walls are lath (?) and plaster, and I currently do not have any recessed cabinets in the bathroom so I will be cutting into walls (above existing sink and toilet) . The bathtub was not originally meant to have a shower in it, which it has now, and the plaster has gotten wet and has some small cracks in it. The bathroom area is small - including the bathtub, it is 8’x6’. My house is a 1925 Dutch colonial. It still has the original iron piping. Oh, and the toilet had been moved at one time, because next to it is about a 4" wide pipe with a one inch square bolt sticking up from the floor. . . not sure how to get that out of there . . .

Thanks to anyone who can help!

BJLower 09-23-2008 08:49 PM

One step at a time
 
You always want to start with everything that behind the drywall or in your case lathe & plater because that's wear you are going to find those wonderful gifts left behind from some time in the past.


Those are the things that may make you have to alter your plans. You never know what your going to find and the older the house the more likely you are to find some really strange things. I added onto the back of a home on a saltwater canal running to Tampa Bay. I didn't want to completely loose the view of the canal so I built a fish tank into the wall. All the outside of the house was cinder block except the area where I put the fish tank in. When I opened the wall I found that it was built with exactly 5 inch wood. It wasn't cut to that size, it was factory milled pine that was exactly 5 inches. Where they managed to get it had the neighbors scratching their heads. In this case it was a good “strange thing” because it gave me a thicker wall to work with. Unfortunately good “strange things” are about a rare as everything behind the walls being wear you think it is. In other words, don't be surprised if you end up having to take down all of the lathe and plaster on at least one wall. Which can put a major change on the rest of the project.


Another spot to look for trouble is moving the light switch. It may or may not be tied into the outlet that is already by the sink even if the switch doesn't effect that outlet. Sometimes they even feed an outlet on a wall outside the bathroom. You can run into a mess where you're not sure what wire does what. The most common is the light switch having both the black and white hooked up where they've run one “leg” of the power going to the light through the switch.


Most of the time it's easier to find the the line with both sides hot when the switch if off and running a new piece of wire from that point. Don't forget to put the splice inside of a box that is a universal code.


The fun might not be over, especially in the old lathe and plaster walls you can run into cross support boards (best thing I could come up with to call them) or boards run between the studs to help support them that can make fishing the new line impossible without cutting the wall. Don't forget to change the outlet out to a GPS.


Then make sure that you can get the power to the Jacuzzi tub.


Until you find all of the surprises hidden behind the walls then I would worry about which step to take next.


You may well find something(s) behind a wall that you'll have to put a posting(s) out on before you can go any farther than that.


Once you hit that point then post a what next.


I am curious about the old pipe next to the toilet. I assume that the bolt sticking up out of the floor is holding a seal on. A plumber would have to tell you for sure, but I would assume that you would want to get rid of the bolt sticking up out of the floor. I would have to guess that they have ways now of sealing the line without leaving a bolt sticking up out of the floor.


I'm sure that the seal means that the pipe is still hooked to the sewage line, so unless you want to give your own “Myth Busters” test on the exploding toilet don't leave it open.


BJ

David Peterson 09-23-2008 09:52 PM

Seattle Home - Newbie, Gut er! Unless you want to save some of the existing finishes - you didn't say - you need to find out what is behind the walls, above the ceiling and definitely under the floor. Possible if not probable mold and structural damage to the floor due to the evidence of leaks and the relocated old plumbing. Since you are going to add radiant floor heat you are going to have to anticipate some transition issues. The old DWV and supply piping may have to be abandonded or at least brought up to code and you don't want to bury all this work under new finishes without making sure it is sound. Same with the vent fan (how was it vented out before?) and the wiring. You are also going to want to use moisture resistant drywall and tile backer when you start to put it all back together so there is not much sense saving any of the lath and plaster. When your down to the skeleton you should take new frame to frame measurements and some digital photos to post as well as your new scaled plans showing where all the old stuff ( wiring, piping, etc) is and a separate one showing where you want the new fixtures and appliances (switches- GFI receptacles, fan, power feed for the radiant heat etc.) You are a ways away from putting anything back together and lots of investigating needs to be done. We do lots of these and I wouldn't touch it unless a client would agree to gut it first.

SeattleHome 10-08-2008 06:48 PM

BJ . . . thank you for the information. I have started tearing off the plaster walls behind the toilet and sink. Lots of pipes in there. I am going to continue gutting the whole bathroom . . . which could take me a while working on weekends. Thanks again. I will print this information and keep it for when I get deeper into the project. DeAnna

Quote:

Originally Posted by BJLower (Post 160698)
You always want to start with everything that behind the drywall or in your case lathe & plater because that's wear you are going to find those wonderful gifts left behind from some time in the past.


Those are the things that may make you have to alter your plans. You never know what your going to find and the older the house the more likely you are to find some really strange things. I added onto the back of a home on a saltwater canal running to Tampa Bay. I didn't want to completely loose the view of the canal so I built a fish tank into the wall. All the outside of the house was cinder block except the area where I put the fish tank in. When I opened the wall I found that it was built with exactly 5 inch wood. It wasn't cut to that size, it was factory milled pine that was exactly 5 inches. Where they managed to get it had the neighbors scratching their heads. In this case it was a good “strange thing” because it gave me a thicker wall to work with. Unfortunately good “strange things” are about a rare as everything behind the walls being wear you think it is. In other words, don't be surprised if you end up having to take down all of the lathe and plaster on at least one wall. Which can put a major change on the rest of the project.


Another spot to look for trouble is moving the light switch. It may or may not be tied into the outlet that is already by the sink even if the switch doesn't effect that outlet. Sometimes they even feed an outlet on a wall outside the bathroom. You can run into a mess where you're not sure what wire does what. The most common is the light switch having both the black and white hooked up where they've run one “leg” of the power going to the light through the switch.


Most of the time it's easier to find the the line with both sides hot when the switch if off and running a new piece of wire from that point. Don't forget to put the splice inside of a box that is a universal code.


The fun might not be over, especially in the old lathe and plaster walls you can run into cross support boards (best thing I could come up with to call them) or boards run between the studs to help support them that can make fishing the new line impossible without cutting the wall. Don't forget to change the outlet out to a GPS.


Then make sure that you can get the power to the Jacuzzi tub.


Until you find all of the surprises hidden behind the walls then I would worry about which step to take next.


You may well find something(s) behind a wall that you'll have to put a posting(s) out on before you can go any farther than that.


Once you hit that point then post a what next.


I am curious about the old pipe next to the toilet. I assume that the bolt sticking up out of the floor is holding a seal on. A plumber would have to tell you for sure, but I would assume that you would want to get rid of the bolt sticking up out of the floor. I would have to guess that they have ways now of sealing the line without leaving a bolt sticking up out of the floor.


I'm sure that the seal means that the pipe is still hooked to the sewage line, so unless you want to give your own “Myth Busters” test on the exploding toilet don't leave it open.


BJ


SeattleHome 10-08-2008 06:53 PM

David, Thanks for the information. It took me a while to get back to the site because I forgot my password. Duh. Meanwhile, I did decide to start gutting the bathroom. Um yes, all kinds of stuff in the walls. I agree with you - I just want the whole thing done correctly the first time around. I am sad to see the plaster have to go though, but this is for the best. You have brought up very good things to check and I will add it to my list. Thanks, DeAnna

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Peterson (Post 160719)
Seattle Home - Newbie, Gut er! Unless you want to save some of the existing finishes - you didn't say - you need to find out what is behind the walls, above the ceiling and definitely under the floor. Possible if not probable mold and structural damage to the floor due to the evidence of leaks and the relocated old plumbing. Since you are going to add radiant floor heat you are going to have to anticipate some transition issues. The old DWV and supply piping may have to be abandonded or at least brought up to code and you don't want to bury all this work under new finishes without making sure it is sound. Same with the vent fan (how was it vented out before?) and the wiring. You are also going to want to use moisture resistant drywall and tile backer when you start to put it all back together so there is not much sense saving any of the lath and plaster. When your down to the skeleton you should take new frame to frame measurements and some digital photos to post as well as your new scaled plans showing where all the old stuff ( wiring, piping, etc) is and a separate one showing where you want the new fixtures and appliances (switches- GFI receptacles, fan, power feed for the radiant heat etc.) You are a ways away from putting anything back together and lots of investigating needs to be done. We do lots of these and I wouldn't touch it unless a client would agree to gut it first.


Marvin Gardens 10-08-2008 08:29 PM

Gut, wiring, plumbing, insulation, speaker wire for tunes while in the tub, encase the tub, connect plumbing and electrical, walls with greenrock, if tiles near tub use cement board, tile, flooring, trim, fill tube, poor wine, get in and enjoy.

Now that wasn't so hard.

Just some suggestions. Put in different lighting. I have 3 different light on dimmers and it allows me to have different lighting and makes the bathroom look different with each setting. Some are in the walls, some are in the ceiling (the vaulted part) and some are in the beams.

ccarlisle 10-09-2008 08:21 AM

IMO a big issue with bathrooms, once electrical, structural and plumbing issues have been dealt with, deals with waterproofing showers. For us the #1 reason to gut any bathroom is water damage...not tiling, not electrical, not even plumbing. OK we see a lot of gutted bathrooms because of mould - but it remains that the reason people who need to gut their bathrooms do so because of water damage - and mostly from showers.

In your case, it's a voluntary remodel; but the one thing that hastens the next 'gut' - forced or not - is that water has destroyed all the original work, not matter how pretty that work may be. Water damage does not discriminate...

So 5 years down the road, you may be facing another 'gut' call unless you have made sure that the shower is properly constructed. If you do so now, then you won't need a shower gut until 40 years from now. I for one won't be around, nor perhaps might you...LOL

An average shower sees more rainfall than many roofs ever see...and thus badly constructed showers only have a ~5 year lifetime - and I'll tell ya, 5 years is way too short for me! Within that timeframe, water will cause mould and structural issues within the bathroom - and even the room below it. And there the 'gut' call is called for, even mandated by security and health issues. No sink, no toilet, no tile, no Jacuzzi can claim that record.

We use Schluter products to ensure our showers last a lifetime that is measured in decades - not years. 'Kerdi' membrane on the walls, Ditra on the floors, thinset over concrete board are minimums, maybe a Kerdi shower pan and drain combo if space permits. But only that type of installation ensure that water is managed appropriately and by extension so is mould. Go to their website for more information about showers.

IMO, a good shower construction (complete with good ventilation) is the start of a long-lasting - and therefore valuable - bathroom. Toilets, sinks, baths can be broken and fixed, electrical and plumbing as well, painting and tiling are now becoming DIY projects, but waterproof showerstalls? Nope, not everyone sees the issues water management can cause.

Now is the time to take a look!:yes:

4just1don 10-09-2008 11:04 AM

I am going to address what I see no one else has talked about,,,,the window in the shower.

In the old days wth JUST tubs,windows over tubs were common. Now showers are installed and all things change as to water proofing,,,have seen people TRY to hang an extra curtain over window etc. NOTHING ever works except complete water proofing like poster before me says.

FIRST thing is to "get rid of that shower window". I AM a believer in a bath window,opening style, BUT high up on the wall,above eye level,,,preferably vinyl,all vinylinside and out. You will b MORE than unhappy with a window in constant splash zone. Ever get water deposits off of glass?? AND sealing it is a pain.

I am installing some like that now,,,I am using 14X32" basement slider back and forth and am planning on running bottom tile right up to window edge on a 45 degree angle so water cant set there.

I first remodeled this bath without a window and didnt like the darkness in light of day conditions. If you have TALL ceilings you have larger windows that COULD be installed. Biggest question is what is exterior siding?? Easy to move window up?? Make it look as good as possible outside.

IF your going to leave a LOW shower window,,,better have somebody with LOTS of experience do it and waterproof it,,,or you will be right back to square one!! When you tear out the old window area you will see the effects of water and windows!!


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