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Old 02-02-2008, 05:38 PM   #1
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Steel I-Beam Choice for Aircraft Hangar Apartment


I'm wanting to build a hangar for a small aircraft and I want the 2nd floor of the hangar to be a large living quarters type of area. I'm wanting the entire 1st floor to be completely open for my aircraft, cars, and all the other stuff that us guys collect over the years. I'm also wanting the 1st floor to be about 60 ft wide. Although I probably only need it to be 50 ft wide, from what I understand, 60 ft is a standard length and as such, I'm willing to work around standard lengths. The 2nd floor will be supporting all the loads that one would normally associate with a house with probably the heaviest single object being a gun safe at around 2000 lbs. All other weights will be pretty much distributed evenly throughout the floor, just like in a regular house. So, the question is, what size I-beam (or W-beam) do I need for this? How close should the I-beams be to each other as I progress from one end of the hangar to the other end? What size floor joists would be necessary for the part of the floor support structure that is going perpendicular to the I-beams? Should these be steel also?

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Old 02-02-2008, 06:26 PM   #2
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Steel I-Beam Choice for Aircraft Hangar Apartment


You need to hire an engineer who's qualified and experienced in this type of work.

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Old 02-02-2008, 07:12 PM   #3
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Steel I-Beam Choice for Aircraft Hangar Apartment


Actually, you would be well served by having a steel building manufacturer design this building for you, including the mezzanine deck (2nd floor) you desire. This is not a DIY or local architect type of venture.....50 or 60 foot spans with residential floor loads are pretty significant.

I have built one once, and we beat the span by allowing columns 20 feet inside the hangar door. This allowed 40 feet (in this case) wide by 20 deep for the wings, and cut all the spans to 20 feet. The floor was supported with bar joists and 1-1/8 T&G flooring above, and a layer of 3 inch white vinyl back fiberglass for insulating the floor. Yes, the columns can be "in the way", but if you allow the engineer to have them, you can save a bunch of money. If you insists on 50 feet or greater spans (material stock lengths are 40, typically), you find other things besides airplanes cost big money.

If you think about what I have verbally told you, you can draw a box, or rectangle, and grid it, on 20 foot centers. Draw lines across the narrow side of the building. connecting the dots...these would be the main beams, attached wall to column to column to wall again, and the bar joists would be carried on these, spanning beam to beam. Now you can see how this is done. You could alter the design to allow hangar doors on both ends, or sides.
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Old 02-02-2008, 08:35 PM   #4
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Steel I-Beam Choice for Aircraft Hangar Apartment


Would having the 2nd floor suspended from the roof require smaller I-beams for the support of the decking of the 2nd floor?
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Old 02-02-2008, 09:09 PM   #5
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Steel I-Beam Choice for Aircraft Hangar Apartment


And how would you support the weight of the floating structure from the roof? Follow Joasis's suggestion, and that you should be contacting a builder in Steel structures, due to a Aircraft hanger is not a DIY project. BTW, have you ever looked at some of the hangers made for what you are looking at doing?

http://sprucecreekrental.com/Floor_P...er/hanger.html

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Old 02-03-2008, 07:10 AM   #6
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Steel I-Beam Choice for Aircraft Hangar Apartment


If the floor load of a mezzanine deck were shifted to the mainframes of a building, their size would triple, literally. Talk to a steel building company, and tell them what you want. Quotes are free from national companies like Anthem Steel or General Steel.

Nice link Greg....I especially like the Velocity in the hangar...pretty awesome bi fold door system as well. I had the opportunity to fly a Velocity at Oshkosh '99, and nearly squeezed the trigger and bought the kit.....since I quit flying, and lost interest in things with wings, I am glad I didn't make the purchase.
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Old 02-03-2008, 07:32 AM   #7
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Steel I-Beam Choice for Aircraft Hangar Apartment


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And how would you support the weight of the floating structure from the roof?
I figured that it could be something like a roof truss that you see in a house, but maybe with just vertical members instead of diagonal ones... That would make it such that the 2nd floor was not completely open, but would end up with what looked like support columns every 20 ft or so...
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Old 02-03-2008, 08:23 AM   #8
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Steel I-Beam Choice for Aircraft Hangar Apartment


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Quotes are free from national companies like Anthem Steel or General Steel.
http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/...Off0188089.htm

Hmmm... Kind of makes me wonder about those two companies though...
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Old 02-03-2008, 10:48 AM   #9
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Steel I-Beam Choice for Aircraft Hangar Apartment


Hmmm, those were just one avenue Joasis gave you to start you on the path to getting your hanger built. I would hope you wouldn't be like the guy in that ripoff article and fax off a $10,000 check after signing a "barely legible" contract in a high pressure sales tactic. That was just plain stupidity.
Don't be stupid and chances are, you won't get ripped off.

Although coming into a diy chatroom and asking what size I-beams you need to build a second story apartment over a 60' clear span indicates you don't even know where to begin with this project. Engineers are the folks who can rate beams for spans and they don't give that info out freely. They need to be intimate with the details of your project to come up with the right numbers. Anything less opens them up for liability issues and lawsuits galore...

Glad you know how to research online, find yourself a reputable builder in your area and get a bid for your project. This is not a DIY weekend project...

Mac
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Old 02-03-2008, 11:35 AM   #10
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Steel I-Beam Choice for Aircraft Hangar Apartment


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Hmmm, those were just one avenue Joasis gave you to start you on the path to getting your hanger built. I would hope you wouldn't be like the guy in that ripoff article and fax off a $10,000 check after signing a "barely legible" contract in a high pressure sales tactic. That was just plain stupidity.
Don't be stupid and chances are, you won't get ripped off.
Agreed... If a company says that the price is "only good for today", I look elsewhere... Even with highly fluctuating material prices, a quote should be good for more than a single day... If they want to press, I'll just give them the number of a local timeshare 'resort' that tries the same approach... They should have fun with each other...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BuiltByMAC View Post
Although coming into a diy chatroom and asking what size I-beams you need to build a second story apartment over a 60' clear span indicates you don't even know where to begin with this project. Engineers are the folks who can rate beams for spans and they don't give that info out freely. They need to be intimate with the details of your project to come up with the right numbers. Anything less opens them up for liability issues and lawsuits galore...
For the most part, I'm just trying to collect enough information that I can do a ballpark estimate of the costs of the structure so that I don't get screwed when I do go to a professional company to get the building built... This allows me to explore various designs and throw out ones that would not work from an economical standpoint without having to waste the time of an engineer on the matter...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BuiltByMAC View Post
Glad you know how to research online, find yourself a reputable builder in your area and get a bid for your project. This is not a DIY weekend project...
No, I don't expect to be able to build it myself, but I expect to be able to subcontract the work out to other companies that are able to do it themselves... I'll subcontract out the slab, building frame, shell, and such... Some of the subcontractors will be the ones that do local housing development in the area since once the shell is created and the 2nd floor is open, putting up he non-load bearing walls and trim will be pretty much the same for this type of building as it would be for a normal house...
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Old 02-03-2008, 01:31 PM   #11
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Steel I-Beam Choice for Aircraft Hangar Apartment


Quote:
Originally Posted by diy-581 View Post
For the most part, I'm just trying to collect enough information that I can do a ballpark estimate of the costs of the structure so that I don't get screwed when I do go to a professional company to get the building built... This allows me to explore various designs and throw out ones that would not work from an economical standpoint without having to waste the time of an engineer on the matter...
You won't find a whole lot of people online willing to toss out ballpark numbers on spans and beam sizes due to liability issues. I would highly recommend contacting some past clients of any company you are looking at - they should be able to tell you if the company has a history of screwing people over.

I understand your position more and respect your interest in researching your options.

Good luck with the project,

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Old 02-03-2008, 02:13 PM   #12
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Steel I-Beam Choice for Aircraft Hangar Apartment


I'm an engineer, albeit not a mechanical engineer... My background is BS in CS with a minor in Math, MS in CS with a minor in EE in addition to 4 years of drafting in high school and working as a draftsman for an energy company 30+ years ago... As such, I prefer to be able to understand something without having to blindly take the word of someone else if at all possible... I've gone over various scenarios with the information available at www.efunda.com with regards to steel wide flange I-beams properties and the uniform load calculator... I need to do a bit more research to determine what type of load per sq-ft should I plan for with regards to floor loading... If I'm correct, then this will allow me to then determine the "line pressure load on beam" (i.e. 'p' in the equation)... Also, what type of deflection is acceptable in such a situation? Using a W18x119 with a moment of inertia of 2190, I get a deflection of 0.533 inches with the default 'p' of 10 psi-in... Assuming $0.40 per pound for the steel, then each beam would cost $7,140... Assuming a 60x60 building and thus 4 of those beams being necessary, then I'm looking at $28,560 just to put the base structure up for the 2nd floor... By being able to do calculations like this, I can play with the numbers a bit so that I can make compromises with regards to the size and shape of the building to maximize the usability of the building with regards to the size and shape of the lot in addition to the items that I would like to store there (i.e. 3 cars, jet boat, kayak, utility trailer, lawn tractor, ATV, aircraft, beer fridge, plus workshop tools and such)...

The older we get, the more toys we get (and the more expensive they get)...

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Old 02-04-2008, 07:22 AM   #13
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Steel I-Beam Choice for Aircraft Hangar Apartment


You will have more in the beams and structure for the second floor, then in the outer shell of the building, easily. You don't indicate an area, but for example, in Oklahoma, a 60X60 with a bifold door, erected, would be around 45k. You can easily double that for the mezzanine floor. If you have the space, you might be advised to consider an apartment in one end, framed like a home, within the building...use the below area for parts and storage. We have built as few of these for people who want to live in the shop.

By the way, the reference to Anthem or General was based on the fact, they give free quotes, and the preliminary price would be a good start. I bet if you look, you will find a steel building manufacturer in your area, or an erector that can get you in ouch with one. Estimates are free...if they go to prints, it is after the contract and down payment.
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Old 02-04-2008, 08:17 AM   #14
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Steel I-Beam Choice for Aircraft Hangar Apartment


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You will have more in the beams and structure for the second floor, then in the outer shell of the building, easily. You don't indicate an area, but for example, in Oklahoma, a 60X60 with a bifold door, erected, would be around 45k. You can easily double that for the mezzanine floor. If you have the space, you might be advised to consider an apartment in one end, framed like a home, within the building...use the below area for parts and storage. We have built as few of these for people who want to live in the shop.
Unlike with a normal house, adding the 2nd floor over a clear span hangar floor really seems to increase the cost of the building disproportionately... The lot that I'm considering purchasing is 1/2 acre and there is no adjoining lot that I could purchase to give me a bit more breathing room... There are various setbacks that prevent me from taking up the entire lot... Basically, I need to leave room for other people to be able to taxi their aircraft near the property... I've created a spreadsheet so that I can play with the numbers a bit to determine optimal dimensions for the building... Reducing the clear span width allows a lighter weight I-beam to be used, but more of them will be used and more materials will be used on the exterior of the building... My gut feeling is that the increase in the cost of the exterior materials is overshadowed by what is probably saved by going to a lighter I-beam... In addition, I've drawn up a floorplan model in Visio and created rough objects for the space needed to park my various 'toys'... If at all possible, I want to have the entire living area on the 2nd floor... I'm in the Houston area and it is my view that we are only one slow moving tropical storm away from having flooded 1st floors no matter where you live in the area... I was here during Allison and that inconvenient little fact was definitely impressed upon me at that time... I figure that as long as it's not too terribly inconvenient, I'll put the living quarters on the 2nd floor...
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Old 02-04-2008, 08:24 AM   #15
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If you have the bucks, call me, and I will be happy to make time this fall to build it...sounds like a nice project.

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