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rjf 01-28-2007 10:52 PM

steel building insulation problem
 
My steel building had saturated insulation, anyone know about how to fix this?

joasis 01-29-2007 06:55 AM

Well....have any idea of where the moisture was coming from? Are we talking about the entire building? More info needed. Your post sounds like fire truck drove in and wet it down....if the insulation was wet one time, it depends on if it was actually damaged....if it has stretched out, with gaps between the purlins, you have 2 choices...remove the roof panels and replace, or just pull it down and have foam sprayed directly to the panels.

concretemasonry 01-29-2007 07:35 AM

If it was fiberglass, you will probably have to toss the insulation since it is unlikely you could dry it our enough for it to function well. As little as 1/2 to 1% moisture can cut the insulation value in half.

Fiberglass does not absorb a great deal of moisture, but it will hold moisture. The only way to dry it means lots of air movement, which you can only get with it removed, so you might as well use new.

there may be better choices than fiberglass for a tin building.

AtlanticWBConst. 01-29-2007 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joasis (Post 31606)
Well....have any idea of where the moisture was coming from? Are we talking about the entire building? More info needed. Your post sounds like fire truck drove in and wet it down....if the insulation was wet one time, it depends on if it was actually damaged....if it has stretched out, with gaps between the purlins, you have 2 choices...remove the roof panels and replace, or just pull it down and have foam sprayed directly to the panels.

2nd This advice

rjf 01-29-2007 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joasis (Post 31606)
Well....have any idea of where the moisture was coming from? Are we talking about the entire building? More info needed. Your post sounds like fire truck drove in and wet it down....if the insulation was wet one time, it depends on if it was actually damaged....if it has stretched out, with gaps between the purlins, you have 2 choices...remove the roof panels and replace, or just pull it down and have foam sprayed directly to the panels.

The walls and roof are saturated in areas.....making puddles on inside of building, we have found that there are multiple holes in roof due to missing beams to screw to, improper screwing on side walls, screws at angles, washers busted. We have 230,000 BTU of heat going thru building, and construction company is saying insulation will just have to dry out, but inspector has stated he will not give occupancy with saturated insulation due to health issues down the road, insulation is R19 and this is a commercial building. What can we do, this project was to be completed last November, building is over 5,500 square feet and has sheetrock, interior walls, and painting has already been completed, we don't know what we are supposed to do????

concretemasonry 01-29-2007 10:10 AM

Multiple holes, missing beams and bad wall screws is not good even if you can dry out the worthless insulation!

Surprised the inspector was sharp enough to catch the health issues. The dust in fiberglass can be great medium/food for mold. The damp sheetrock paper is already a recognized problem.

How do you propose to dry out the insulation behind the sheetrock?

Does not sound like an easy fix since the problems are already known and on the table.

joasis 01-29-2007 09:52 PM

You have some serious issues here...get an independent steel contractor out to give you an opinion and an estimate...then contact the original contractor and give him the chance to fix it...or lawyer up.

The problems you have described will not go away, and don't let anyone jump on the roof with a caulking gun and tell you this is normal, either.

Brik 01-30-2007 09:16 AM

yea, what the others said.

Remove all the sheetrock, remove all the insulation. Repair the roofing and walls. (And not just a tube of caulk either). This may involve replacing panels. Once you have a water tight shell then re-insulate drywall, etc.

sheeter 02-02-2007 06:52 AM

Sounds like you received a lousy job. Question is, how did it get this far? How is it that the sheetrock is up and finished if the shell didn't cut mustard with the building inspector? Even with a steel building, it had to get various inspections as the work progressed. What brand engineered building is it, MBCI, US Steel, ...? Many steel building manufacturers will come out and inspect the structure, for a fee, to tell you if it were constructed correctly. If your missing zee-girt perlins like your post indicates, you've got some issues. The screws you mention should be #12-14 Maxiseal Teks with neoprene washers. The laps in the metal panels should have laptek stich screws inbetween the girt lines to draw the laps together.

rjf 02-02-2007 10:00 AM

The inspector has done inspection and did tell me that there were holes in the roof, where they missed the beams. The compnay did know about them, but they have chosen to work on other jobs and were not working on our project everyday. they also had half the roof on and we got a rain storm and wind storm, with insulation exposed.
I did have the building manufaturer come and evaluate the building and he told me that it was not correct. The structure is fine, but there are issues. i met with the owner of the construction company, and she has given us a date of Feb 5th they will check the insulation again. They put in a de-humidifier. When they were putting up the rodent guard I had there guys and myself check the insulation in the walls around the building, and 80% of the insulation is wet. Since it is between the outside panels and Sheetrock I have asked them to replace the insulation.
Also does a de-humidifier suck moisture from inside the vapor barrier, since they have now sealed all the insulation on the roof?

Thanks for the help, one other question are you a contractor in your state?

concretemasonry 02-02-2007 11:10 AM

You will NOT be able to dry the insulation when it is in place, vapor barrier or not! Fiberglass can hold a lot of moisture and the fine strands create dead air space, so you cannot get enough flow of DRY air through the fiberglass. It only takes a very small amount of moisture (1/2 - 1%) to dramatically reduce the insulating value. - The glass manufacturers have the numbers, but they do not like to disclose them.

sheeter 02-02-2007 08:10 PM

I'm not a GC in North Carolina, but I am a General Superintendent for one. I work in the high end of the metal panel industry, and am a certified installer for MBCI, Centria, and Metal Span. I don't do many pre-engineered buildings but I do metal panel systems that have to be customized to fit large structures. However, the basic principles apply to all metal panel systems. What I would recommend that you do is to pay a consultant or manufacturer's representative to prepare a report as to what the problems are and what recommended corrective measures should be performed. Then meet with your installer to see what they will do to perform the necessary corrections. Once they are completed, have the same consultant or manfacturer's representative to re-inspect the building to ensure that all corrections were made. The reality of it is, if rain storms were in the forecast, the installers should not have had insulation exposed. The typical procedure is to roll out one row of insulation and then catch up the panels. Each time the crew leaves the job for the day, the leading edge should have been tucked in behind the panels and temporarily screwed. The vapor barrier will keep the water out since it is likely a vinyl based screen. I personally don't see how they can dry out the insulation, which takes continuous air flow. The insulation is usually compressed tight at the girt lines, where it is screwed to the steel, limiting air flow. As far as my background, if you live in the eastern half of the United States, you have seen a building that I worked on.

joasis 02-03-2007 08:03 AM

sheeter is absolutely correct, but I would take this a step further, since your manufacturers rep is only concerned with "issues" and is probably covering his tail. You need an evaluation from a independant contractor, preferably one who has a certification, like sheeter above, that will list the problems, and corrections, and then a meeting with your contractor, and either or else...sounds to me like they are out of budget on your project, and have moved on...there interest in you will be the same.

After your desription of the problems, there is no alternative but to remove all the sheeting and replace the insulation, period. Any other plan will leave you with a host of problems down the road, maybe mold, health issues, water trapped in the girl like could cause the fasteners to rust.....holes in the building....on and on...and as I said before, do not let anyone near you building with a caulking gun to "fix" the problems, saying everyone does it.

rjf 02-08-2007 03:23 PM

also: cement question
 
Among the existing problems with our metal building, we have noticed that the cement poured throughout our building has now started to crack significantly, long cracks from one wall to the other in one area, and lots of other spider cracks throughout........what is the cause of this??? There are also spots that look like they are deteriorating...how does one fix these long cracks, it looks terrible, especially in the reception area where the cement has been painted.

concretemasonry 02-08-2007 05:18 PM

steel building insulation problem
 
Concrete does shrink and cracks can form that is why they must be controlled.

Excessive random cracks are usually a sign of not enough control joints (formed or sawed).

Even if you have properly designed contol joint locations, if the contractor pours a concrete mix that is too wet, it will shrink more than it should and you will definitely get cracks. Depending on the age of the floor, you can expect the cracks to increase as the concrete continues to cure and shrink.

Do you have wire mesh (6 x 6) in the concrete?

YOU do not fix the concrete - you do not pay the contractor until HE does something.


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