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Old 12-23-2011, 01:45 PM   #1
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Squeaky Engineered Joist


Hi!

I have a one-year old house with iLevel TJI-110 joists 16" OC and a 3/4" subfloor that was glued and screwed down. On a long width run of the house (perpendicular to the joists), the floor has developed an annoying squeak in multiple areas.

The builder came back and was going to screw a 1x2 into the bottom of the joist to stiffen it up across the run. He didn't have any 1x2's and it's annoying the heck out of us. 1x2's are cheap and it's easy to do this, so I'm thinking about doing it myself.

Is this the correct way to fix the squeak? Any suggestions?

Thanks in advanced.
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Old 12-23-2011, 02:06 PM   #2
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A 1 X 2, are you kidding?
A 2 X 4 may work if it's glued and screwed but any 1X is never going to do anything.
The manufacture (if you go on there web site) will suggest using 3/4" plywood or OSB screwed to the webbing. Which is the best way if it's the joist is moving.
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Old 12-23-2011, 02:17 PM   #3
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Yeah, I found this...

http://www.woodbywy.com/literature/TJ-4000.pdf

Which says to do what you say. I'm more of a woodworker than a construction person, but on p6, it talks about a "Web Stiffener Attachment". It looks like you take a 5/8" x 2 5/16" minimum OSB or plywood, leave a 1/8" gap minimum on top and a tight fit on the bottom, and three 8d nails 1" from top and bottom, then in the middle, and you're done. I would use screws over nails, but that's just me.

Is this correct? How long does the webbing have to be? Will this stop the floor from squeaking?

I should probably explain my problem a little better. There's a long span of the joist (probably about 17'). In a number of places on different joists, about in the middle of the span, the floor squeaks. When the builder went downstairs and shook the joist a little back and forth, the squeak was there. I guess his thinking was that if he put a 1x2 up there, it would stiffen the joist up and prevent it from swaying, and cure the squeak.

Thanks for the response and your help!!
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Old 12-23-2011, 02:19 PM   #4
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The manufacturor calls for metal bridging ("x" bracing) between the joists every 8' (something like that) to prevent deflection.

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Old 12-23-2011, 02:52 PM   #5
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I'm just reading more about this and trying to figure out what to do. I found this link here...

http://www.contractortalk.com/f3/i-j...idging-101515/

There's an interesting video in that link that demonstrates what the floor looks like under load. Of course, they are selling a product, but interesting nonetheless.

Towards the bottom (post #18) says this...

--
Bridging is not required for "I" joists unless the underside is left exposed in which case a 2by4 is fastened midspan and perpendicular to the underside of the joist.
---

Which sounds like something the builder was trying to do but Joe sounds like it probably won't work.

The commonality between all posts seem like if there is NOT drywall attached to the bottom of the joist, some sort of stiffner has to be added. Since engineered joists seem to have some science involved, I'm a little leery about how to attack the problem, since I don't have the knowledge. I'd rather use wood than metal bracing for fear the metal will make noise. I suppose I'd feel better about what to do if I do a little more research.

Thanks!
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Old 12-23-2011, 03:22 PM   #6
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OK, I think I may have found a solution. There's a product called IBS2000. It's found here...

http://www.luxorcorp.com/ibs2000/

It seems like it would solve the problem, but the other problem is that there is not a distributor anywhere around Chicago. Could I just make my own by taking a 3/4" plywood and slice it about 4" wide and 12" long, and cross a 2x4, and then screw it in?

Thanks!
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Old 12-23-2011, 03:27 PM   #7
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I have limited experience with engineered joists, but, I would think that the joist itself is not making noise. So, I would assume that adding bracing would not help much with the noise.

Maybe get someone to walk on it while you are under it to listen to where the noise is actually coming from. I would bet that it is coming from where it is connected (hangers or resting on). This is assuming that the floor was actually glued and screwed properly.
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Old 12-23-2011, 03:35 PM   #8
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Thanks Powerwash. Maybe I'll have somebody walk on it from above and try to listen to it from the basement.

A possible related problem is that I've also noticed a good amount of the floor shaking when walking around on it. Heck, my 30lb dog rattles a glass on a nearby table when she walks around. So, even if the bracing doesn't help the squeak, I'm sure it will stiffen the floor up enough to not shake anymore.
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Old 12-23-2011, 03:41 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wiz561 View Post
Thanks Powerwash. Maybe I'll have somebody walk on it from above and try to listen to it from the basement.

A possible related problem is that I've also noticed a good amount of the floor shaking when walking around on it. Heck, my 30lb dog rattles a glass on a nearby table when she walks around. So, even if the bracing doesn't help the squeak, I'm sure it will stiffen the floor up enough to not shake anymore.
May I ask the size of the tji's and how far they are spanning?
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Old 12-23-2011, 04:07 PM   #10
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Titanoman,

Of course. The joist are continuous along the house, approximately 40' in length. There are steel i-beams at various intervals. In the problem area, the span between the hanger and the i-beam is 16'.

The size of them are 11 7/8". They are spaced 16" OC.

The more I think of it, I think I would like to try what the manufacturer recommends for the 'web stiffener attachment'. Does anybody have a picture of this? I'd rather not glue them just yet, so they're not permament, incase they have to be removed.

Thanks for all the responses!
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Old 12-23-2011, 04:29 PM   #11
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I'll send you a web site, but your waisting your time by not gluing them. It would be 25% stronger and there's just never going to be any reason to remove them.
I also agree it's far more likly an area was missed with the constrution adhesive or not enough screws were used.
There's tons of complaints about floor bounce with engineered floor joist and the fix from the companys that make them has always been to add material to the web.
Cross bracing would do nothing to stop up and down movement. It's to stop them from twisting.
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Old 12-23-2011, 04:41 PM   #12
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Thanks Joe. I'll try screwing them in from the basement through the flange and into the subfloor first. That might be the easiest and least labor intensive solution.

I was a little leery about gluing them because I don't want to mess anything up. If I glued them wrong, or if I did something wrong, once glued, would be impossible to remove. That's the only reason why I didn't want to glue them at first.

Thanks all for the responses and giving me some ideas of what to do (and not do).

Thanks!
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Old 12-23-2011, 11:48 PM   #13
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Find the squeaks first. Many times it is simply a fastener that missed the top or peeled out at the end of the fastener. It could be rubbing against the wood. Add the 1x2 across to stop bottom chord deflection, tying all together from outside wall to o.wall. Add construction adhesive in the plywood/OSB T&G joint which should be there anyway- if quality builders/framers. Add glue where there are gaps between plywood/joist in that area. Check again a few days later. No smoking while gluing, plenty of ventilation. Span of 1/3 for strapping and plywood on page 5, E-4: http://cmfac.groups.et.byu.net/tharm...ng%20guide.pdf

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Old 12-24-2011, 07:23 AM   #14
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Thanks Gary for the tips and information.

I'll go down there and see where the rubbing is coming from, and take those tips you have into account.

Also, thanks for the pdf. The one I had posted earlier was good, but it's always great to get more information about it.

Thanks!
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Old 12-24-2011, 07:37 AM   #15
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A few more questions...

- With load bearing walls above, there are 2x4 squash blocks around the joists. (more of a comment)
- On non-load bearing walls above, there are no web stiffeners. Should there be?
- A note on p. 3 of the pdf gary posted says that mid-span bridging or blocking isn't required, while the pdf I posted, I believe, said that it's not a bad idea. Which one is it?

Thanks again for the help.
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