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Old 01-26-2011, 10:59 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by cbaur88 View Post
I hear you ubenhad4, and I thought you were talking old construction. Yes new construction is a whole different bowl of wax. Yes I meant the Home Depot, I don't hold them to high esteem for work quality or pricing I was just curious because like you said I've read some threads where guys got quotes for $500 - $700 dollar range for similar square footage.

I've got about 3" of blow in which either cellulose or fiberglass ( kinda yellowish looking material) not really sure between the joists. Then going perpendicular I've got paper faced batts with the paper facing up toward the sky giving me a total of about 7" or 8" max insulation. I am thinking of ripping the batts out all together and blow more on top or flip the batts and blow on top. However I do not want to create a moisture issue with the paper faced batts so I am hesitant on a game plan.

Get the paper faced out of there. I would never use a paper faced product as it creates a barrier. You can pull that paper off and still leave the batts then either batt or blow on top. Just make sure if you batt it to run layers of batt perpendicular to each other so it covers the seams. Blow in is way better for attic space as it does a really good job of finding and pluging voids and holes.

The most important part of insulation is the attic. It stops the heat entrance in the summer and keeps the warm air in in the winter. Even in hot environments the attic insulation is very important. floors are really important to. In new construction if the under floor is wet and we have to wait to insulate the floor, the difference between the before floor insulation and after is increadible. For this reason I feel you should put as much as posable in your floor. It also help summer cooling as the cold air sinks through to the under floor.

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Old 01-26-2011, 11:05 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by ubenhad4 View Post
Get the paper faced out of there. I would never use a paper faced product as it creates a barrier. You can pull that paper off and still leave the batts then either batt or blow on top. Just make sure if you batt it to run layers of batt perpendicular to each other so it covers the seams. Blow in is way better for attic space as it does a really good job of finding and pluging voids and holes.

The most important part of insulation is the attic. It stops the heat entrance in the summer and keeps the warm air in in the winter. Even in hot environments the attic insulation is very important. floors are really important to. In new construction if the under floor is wet and we have to wait to insulate the floor, the difference between the before floor insulation and after is increadible. For this reason I feel you should put as much as posable in your floor. It also help summer cooling as the cold air sinks through to the under floor.
Thanks ubenhad4, how hard is it to remove the paper off the batts? Sounds like a pesty pain in the arse job, but never tried it so don't know.

I have not flooring in my attic, I basically have to walk on the joists. Are you saying/suggesting flooring is good to have up there? Does that improve insulating the attic more? I'd love to put some flooring down but that is a job in itself and not sure how to insulate on top of it. Thanks for your help!
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Old 01-26-2011, 12:31 PM   #48
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BUT YOUR RIGHT. I know nothing.

What about those different r values you were going to enlighten us with?
yes, I went to each of their websites to determine what the company was before I posted my post about it.

So that list I gave which I got from under the section that says SPONSORS means they aren't sponsors? You need to go to the links provided by each of those sponsors. Each of them are companies that either make money directly from the customers culled from the site or they are effectively referral services for contractors and suppliers that just happen to sponsor their business.

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BUT YOUR RIGHT. I know nothing.
Your words, not mine
----------------
from the energy star website:

Quote:
The Northwest ENERGY STAR Homes program is made possible by the Northwest Energy Efficiency Alliance (NEEA), a private non-profit organization funded by Northwest utilities, the Energy Trust of Oregon and the Bonneville Power Administration. NEEA works in collaboration with its stakeholders and strategic market partners to accelerate the sustained market adoption of energy-efficient products, technologies and practices. NEEA's market transformation efforts address energy efficiency in homes, businesses and industry. Its mission is to: Mobilize the Northwest to become increasingly energy efficient for a sustainable future
They are a defacto advertising company for builders that use their recommended systems. (which strangely enough are derived from other sponsors of their's products)
---------
Energy Trust

Quote:
Energy Trust provides cash incentives for energy-efficient upgrades to single-family and multifamily site-built homes. In 2009 alone, we helped more than 28,000 Oregon households complete improvements and get cash for projects from insulation and duct sealing to high-efficiency water heaters. Many upgrades are eligible for state and federal tax credits
Of course, to obtain those incentives you must use one of their "partners" (aka contractors on their list that paid to be a sponsor of Energy Trust)
--------
Of course we already agreed Certainteed is a sponsor
--------

why you can't see that Jacobs is a sponsor since the are conveniently and conspicuously listed under the heading "SPONSORS" is beyond me.
---------------

and if Carrier isn't a willing sponsor, then I guess Jacobs needs to worry about that since Jacobs is the one, by posting Carrier's name there, infers Carrier is a sponsor.

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What about those different r values you were going to enlighten us with?
I asked you to provide some info first. Rather that doing that, now you try to couch your numbers in a wall system R value. Well, unless you have knowledge of the complete system, you can't determine R value of a wall system therefor a wall R value is meaningless as you have presented it.

rather than continue this tit for tat argument, I'm bowing out so the OP can get the info he needs. I have nothing to gain nor lose here so do what you can to help. I never said your overall ideas were wrong. I simply mentioned an important detail, which happens to also be a code requirement and you get all bent out of shape. To the R values; I have been finding numbers that do not jive with what you posted. All I wanted was you to post a simple list of R values so I could try to see where you were coming up with your calcs.
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Old 01-26-2011, 12:48 PM   #49
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yes, I went to each of their websites to determine what the company was before I posted my post about it.

So that list I gave which I got from under the section that says SPONSORS means they aren't sponsors? You need to go to the links provided by each of those sponsors. Each of them are companies that either make money directly from the customers culled from the site or they are effectively referral services for contractors and suppliers that just happen to sponsor their business.

Your words, not mine
----------------
from the energy star website:



They are a defacto advertising company for builders that use their recommended systems. (which strangely enough are derived from other sponsors of their's products)
---------
Energy Trust

Of course, to obtain those incentives you must use one of their "partners" (aka contractors on their list that paid to be a sponsor of Energy Trust)
--------
Of course we already agreed Certainteed is a sponsor
--------

why you can't see that Jacobs is a sponsor since the are conveniently and conspicuously listed under the heading "SPONSORS" is beyond me.
---------------

and if Carrier isn't a willing sponsor, then I guess Jacobs needs to worry about that since Jacobs is the one, by posting Carrier's name there, infers Carrier is a sponsor.



I asked you to provide some info first. Rather that doing that, now you try to couch your numbers in a wall system R value. Well, unless you have knowledge of the complete system, you can't determine R value of a wall system therefor a wall R value is meaningless as you have presented it.

rather than continue this tit for tat argument, I'm bowing out so the OP can get the info he needs. I have nothing to gain nor lose here so do what you can to help. I never said your overall ideas were wrong. I simply mentioned an important detail, which happens to also be a code requirement and you get all bent out of shape. To the R values; I have been finding numbers that do not jive with what you posted. All I wanted was you to post a simple list of R values so I could try to see where you were coming up with your calcs.
I dont do my own calcs. Thats what energy trust does for me. They have the programming and system to determine actual r values for each wall idependatly. You cant just guess at total r value of a complete wall. I simply listed the r values for the materials being used for insulation.
Of course these companies make money people work there right. A non profit energy program has to have sponsors and get paid buy the customer to be able to fund research. Trust me these guys are tough on the builders who pay to be in the program. They are definatly there to benefit the home owner more than anything else.

Im done this is beating a dead horse. Are you a contractor?
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Old 01-26-2011, 12:54 PM   #50
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Thanks ubenhad4, how hard is it to remove the paper off the batts? Sounds like a pesty pain in the arse job, but never tried it so don't know.

I have not flooring in my attic, I basically have to walk on the joists. Are you saying/suggesting flooring is good to have up there? no Does that improve insulating the attic more?
Not really, it would stop air movement through the insulation but then becomes a moisture trap. I would not sheet over insulation in an attic to seal it in.
I'd love to put some flooring down but that is a job in itself and not sure how to insulate on top of it. Thanks for your help!

I was not talking about an attic floor. I was talking about a floor with crawl space.
You dont neet to worry about sheathing your attic. If you do someone will use it for storage and this can lead to ceiling failure if its not built and designed for those loads.
The kraft paper tears off fairly easily. Just pulls right off.
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Old 01-26-2011, 12:58 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by ubenhad4 View Post
I was not talking about an attic floor. I was talking about a floor with crawl space.
You dont neet to worry about sheathing your attic. If you do someone will use it for storage and this can lead to ceiling failure if its not built and designed for those loads.
The kraft paper tears off fairly easily. Just pulls right off.
Gotcha, thanks for your help and information. I think that's my game plan to remove the kraft paper and blow on top. I'd hate to waste insulation.....
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Old 01-26-2011, 01:08 PM   #52
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Im done this is beating a dead horse. Are you a contractor?
I already told you I would bow out and let you chat with the OP. It seems you aren't content with that. You'll have to be.

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