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Old 01-08-2013, 08:09 AM   #1
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Sisters, Ledgers, and Short wall and more


All,

This is question # 2 based off of my question "2 x 6 sister" posted yesterday afternoon. The feedback was very good so I thought I would go a little deeper to see what other type of advice I could get.

The scenario is this:

Two additions were put on the house. One was in the 50's, the other in the 1980's or so. The 80's addition was put on top of the 50's addition. These were put off the back of the original four square house. When they did the 80's addition, they just more or less rested tapered 2 x 6's (to practically a point as seen in pictures) on top of the old roof. No ledger or anything was added.

We have decided to sister the 2 x 6's with 2 x 12's in this 50's addition. We have supported the 2 x 12's on a short wall. Previously they just had a few supports just fitted tightly between the old roof shingles and the new rafters. See the pics of our short wall.

So, after all that my question in this area is this: Two of the Old 2 x 6 rafters were not flush with the rest of the 2 x 6's. When we sistered the 2 x 12's and fit snug against the roof and followed the same pitch of the plywood naturally our new sisters were not flush either at the point of the temporary wall. Hopefully this is evident by the pictures. I have added an extra block in there so that you can see which item I am referring to. Should I re-sister this problem area so that it is below the plywood roof and flush with the rest of the 2 x 12's, or should I shim the top plate/rafter connection so that it is flush? I had to just do it this way temporarily until I could support the roof, which was pulling away from the house as built. Amazing it did not happen sooner.

Thanks all for your time! I will have a few more questions as we go along. Just want this area to be as strong as it can be without ripping it down.

Thanks and let me know if you have any questions!

Tom
Attached Thumbnails
Sisters, Ledgers, and Short wall and more-sistered-2-x-12-side.jpg   Sisters, Ledgers, and Short wall and more-cut-2-x-6.jpg   Sisters, Ledgers, and Short wall and more-new-short-wall-problem-area.jpg   Sisters, Ledgers, and Short wall and more-original-sistered-side.jpg  

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Old 01-08-2013, 08:11 AM   #2
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Sisters, Ledgers, and Short wall and more


A few more pics...
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Sisters, Ledgers, and Short wall and more-old-new-ledger.jpg   Sisters, Ledgers, and Short wall and more-beam-header-.jpg   Sisters, Ledgers, and Short wall and more-old-new-ledger-2.jpg  

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Old 01-08-2013, 08:27 AM   #3
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Sisters, Ledgers, and Short wall and more


Not quite sure where in the picture to look for the 2 problem 2x6's are. I assume you are talking about the top ledger end. Can you get a closeup of the problem? I am willing to bet you will get other comments about no headers in the wall, rafters not over studs with a single plate on the short wall. This usually brings an onslaught of do's and dont's. Since you are in progress most of your problems can be fixed if they are not on the list already.
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Old 01-08-2013, 09:04 AM   #4
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Sisters, Ledgers, and Short wall and more


Thanks. I have everything temporarily nailed at this point and will certainly have to add/take out some things, which is why I am here.

The problem 2 x 6's have already been sistered. I have doubled up the top plate (so easier to locate) in the problem area so that you can see a little better the 1/4-1/2 inch that new 2 x 12 (and thus the old 2x6) is off. I had to just get that wall up to support until I had a bit more time to research what needs to be done here.

Thanks. That wall that my short wall is on was built in the 50's and was the old exterior of that addition. That door is coming out and that is going to be a kitchen wall with cabinets, so there will be no header necessary as the door will be gone. The rest of the old wall would be difficult to change I think but possible if necessary.

So you are saying for the small cripple type studs I need to have all of those directly above the studs on the 50's wall as well as directly under the rafters?

Thanks,

Tom
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Old 01-08-2013, 01:30 PM   #5
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Sisters, Ledgers, and Short wall and more


That was the single top plate I referred to. To add all those studs would be a little overkill now. A very good option would be if you can take the weight off the short wall and replace it with two 2x's ripped to the height of the little wall. It would make a much stronger support for that roof section, like a continuous header. I guess my last question is, are the 2 new 2 x 12's off at the bottom, or are the 2x6's off at the top, plywood?
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Old 01-08-2013, 01:43 PM   #6
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Sisters, Ledgers, and Short wall and more


The answer to your last question is both. The 2 x 12's are off at the bottom due to 2 x 6's (basically built uneven roof) being unlevel. B/C they had the tapered 2 x 6 (side near new ledger) resting on the old 50's roof, I needed to structurally support that section of the roof, which is why when I sistered the joist I put it snug against the plywood roof and did not drop it to be flush. I am not sure if I should have dropped or not.

I apologize if I am not being clear, I am attempting to explain this the best I can. I have never seen such a thing in any of the homes we have been in before (have a bunch of rentals). Pretty wild.

Also, I do not think that it is an option to add the 2x's at this point, but that would probably have been a good option.

In your opinion should I go back and move the cripple studs? I just want some advice and to do it now rather than when it is all nailed together and the inspector tells me to move them.

Thanks a lot!
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Old 01-08-2013, 02:01 PM   #7
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Sisters, Ledgers, and Short wall and more


Depends on the inspector. If he has knowledge he will say the rafters should be in line with bottom and knee wall studs. Some inspectors won't even notice. So you are saying the 2 2x12's are higher. So rather than mess with the roof you could rip two tapered strips and glue & nail them to the bottom to make them even.

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