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Old 07-09-2008, 03:55 PM   #1
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sill / pan flashing questions


hi - will be installing new patio door and a couple of windows into camp building (new construction) - been reading a lot of different opinions on various options for flashing / waterproofing, including quite a bit about the latest peel-and-stick flashing tapes (bitumen, butyl, etc.)

this building has no housewrap (exterior is stained plywood panelling and will likely remain that way for several more years). The door / window have integrated brick mold (no flanges). Wondering what the best way is to protect the rough opening prior to installing the units (what to use for sill / pan flashing, what to wrap around the jambs in the rough opening, etc.) as well as how to best seal the brick mold to the sheathing (double sided stuff like Duponts Straightflash VF, or just silicone between brick mold and sheathing, or caulking around the brickmold once the window is installed, etc....?) seems like there are quite a few ways to go at this...

thanks
-randy

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Old 07-09-2008, 05:23 PM   #2
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sill / pan flashing questions


There are commercially available sill pans. Just silicone it down to the underlayment. As for the brickmould, a good bed of silicone again, on the backside of the mould, and then finish with a bead around the perimeter.

My 2 cents

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Old 07-10-2008, 11:00 AM   #3
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sill / pan flashing questions


Thanks Brown Dog - i appreciate the advice

Checked a couple of the local bldg stores and not having much luck so far finding prefab sill pans - I don't have the tools to try to fabricate one - I have seen the flashing tape around a couple of the same stores though, and thought that might be an option - I'll keep looking.

are the prefab pans very expensive, and do you know if they are typically sold in the big box stores like Home Depot or chains like TimBRMart (I'm in Canada)

thanks
-randy
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Old 07-10-2008, 11:40 AM   #4
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sill / pan flashing questions


As for the door pans, check a lumber yard...84 lumber, Stock Building Supply, or similar in your area. You can always get one made at a sheetmetal shop.
Another route would be to buy a pair of handheld "seamers" at your big box store, and some roll flashing....maybe 8" wide. Both of those will probably be around 30-40 dollars, but the seamers are good to keep around(good investment). If you choose this route or are interested, I'd be happy to explain how to bend one up.

That flashing tape is really only effective if you are using windows with a nailing flange. Per your first post, silicone on the backside of the brickmould is a good bet!
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Old 07-10-2008, 12:27 PM   #5
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sill / pan flashing questions


Thanks again Brown Dog - if my search for the sill pan products turns up empty, then I'll look for the seamer as you suggested - i've never done any work with coil stock so if that's the route then I'll definitely be back to pester for more info

-randy
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Old 07-10-2008, 01:00 PM   #6
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sill / pan flashing questions


No problem. Although I just noticed an ad on the right side of page for sills..."sursill.com" is the company.

You'll probably find outh that it will be cheaper to bend your own...
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Old 07-25-2008, 03:28 PM   #7
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sill / pan flashing questions


I got a local renovator shop to bend some flashing for me for my door - pretty cheap - anyway, in my travels I talked with sales guy while in one of the home renovation places - he said they never use any kind of (metal) flashing on their patio door installs - apparently they caulk the sills, and use the DAP or Dow non-expanding foam to seal the sides / top. Claiming that the silicone is enough on the bottom, and that the foam makes it completely waterproof everywhere else.

After reading a ton of stuff on line I got the impression that flashing the sill on a door was like the most important thing to do in the install. Now I have someone in the business telling be they don't bother.

Just looking for opinions...

thanks
-randy
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Old 07-25-2008, 03:48 PM   #8
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sill / pan flashing questions


I got a local renovator shop to bend some flashing for me for my door - pretty cheap - anyway, in my travels I talked with sales guy while in one of the home renovation places - he said they never use any kind of (metal) flashing on their patio door installs - apparently they caulk the sills, and use the DAP or Dow non-expanding foam to seal the sides / top. Claiming that the silicone is enough on the bottom, and that the foam makes it completely waterproof everywhere else.

After reading a ton of stuff on line I got the impression that flashing the sill on a door was like the most important thing to do in the install. Now I have someone in the business telling be they don't bother.

Just looking for opinions...

thanks
-randy
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Old 07-25-2008, 04:12 PM   #9
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sill / pan flashing questions


Randy -

All you did is talk to a home renovator guy that is probably the type that does cheap "flips" on TV shows and never worries about the results.

I know of builders that will not do an install without pan flashing, even though they use certified installers instead of their own people. - there is a bottom to every barrel, and renovator uis usually near there.
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Old 07-25-2008, 04:31 PM   #10
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You need a door pan.....thats it. Water will find some way to get beyond the silicone and start eating up your flooring. Do yourself a favor...spend a little now to save A LOT later.
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Old 07-25-2008, 04:53 PM   #11
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sill / pan flashing questions


thanks folks - yes Brown Dog I took your advice and the pan is in the back of my truck now - just looking for some sanity checks which I have found here once again

thanks all

-Randy
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Old 07-29-2008, 05:05 PM   #12
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sill / pan flashing questions


another follow-up question - i've seen a few references here to using ice & water shield in certain window flashing applications - in my case (as mentioned earlier in this post) I'll have windows going into a wall that will not have any tyvek or other housewrap on it. I do have a pan flashing for my door (thanks again B Dog and others) but for the window I was wondering if I could use a strip of ice & water shield material (left over from the roofing work last fall) to flash the sill - and since there is no housewrap to "tuck around" the frame of the opening, maybe I could use the I&W on the jambs as well?

As with the door, an integrated brick mold on the window will be sealed (silicone) against the plywood (stained) exterior sheathing, with a bead around the edge (top and sides) to finish it off.

One day the outside will carry typar and hopefully a cement board lap siding like hardi-plank (another house down the way just had this done - sharp looking, critter proof - really nice - just ain't in my budget right now....)

thanks
-Randy
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Old 07-29-2008, 05:47 PM   #13
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sill / pan flashing questions


Well, only running that I and W shield in tyhe jamb won't do a lot of good. Water can still get behind it. You really need to weatherlap the entire house for optimal performance. Just doing it in spots really defeats the purpose.

I would not bother with the I&W shield until you decide to wrap the entire house.
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Old 08-02-2008, 09:57 AM   #14
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sill / pan flashing questions


brown dog, i would be interested in learning how to use a hand held seamer to turn rolled metal into flashing.

i am residing my house with wood board & batten. i will also be house wrapping with tyvec.

i will probably need to flash my windows. and probably the doors.

can you provide detail info, or direct me to a good website or book?

thanks!
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Old 08-02-2008, 12:35 PM   #15
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sill / pan flashing questions


I'd be happy to tell you how I do it. If appearance is no.1 on your list though, rent a brake...you'll get a cleaner look. Hand seamers do a fine job, you just can't get that bend to be as crisp as with a brake. Email me if still interested: BJYourk@aol.com

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