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-   -   Siding siding everywhere... (http://www.diychatroom.com/f19/siding-siding-everywhere-142949/)

Lioncourt 05-06-2012 08:08 PM

Siding siding everywhere...
 
But no clear answers on whats a good choice.
I have a 1953 house in the Washington DC area. There is no vapor/air barrier, no insulation, black fiberboard sheathing, original asbestos tiles under aluminum siding. It's ugly but more importantly my baby's corner bedroom is quite chilly in the winter. I would love to get more air sealing and insulation along with new siding. I know that I cannot remove the sheathing, beyond my budget. So here is what I am thinking:
With the budget I have strip off the siding including the tiles down to the sheathing. cover the foundation/silplate/rim joist/flooring area in ice & water shield to seal up all air infiltration there. Follow with the brigade board insulated panels and Mastic XL55 siding. I know it's not ideal but I'm afraid adding much more in the way of foam would make me build out my window frames a lot. Any thoughts on this whole system? would you replace the brigade board with something different? (I think the alside prodigy is too costly) Anything I have forgotten or other suggestions?
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joecaption 05-06-2012 08:39 PM

Why would you do all that and not install insulation in the walls?
Insulated siding is not worth the time and money.
Not sure where you came up with the idea of the storm and ice shield at the bottom of the wall, not worth it.
Remove siding and sheathing, insulate, go over it with OSB, Tyvek, then new sinding.

kwikfishron 05-06-2012 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joecaption (Post 916135)
Why would you do all that and not install insulation in the walls?
Insulated siding is not worth the time and money.
Not sure where you came up with the idea of the storm and ice shield at the bottom of the wall, not worth it.

.....

Lioncourt 05-07-2012 04:45 AM

Thanks for reading Joe, can't afford the extra cash to remove the sheathing and insulate. You have $10,000 you can lend me? and the ice and water shield is my thought. I can't think of a better way to stop air infiltration through the gaps between the foundation and flooring layers.

hand drive 05-07-2012 07:36 AM

certain insulating companies can drill a hole in the outside siding at each stud bay and fill the bay with expandable foam. I think they stick a camera or sonar tpye device in the stud bay to determine the volume of space and if there are any obstructions in the bay. they can also drill and foam from inside the house to fill the stud bay cavities. may be cheaper for you than major demolition....

Lioncourt 05-07-2012 08:18 AM

I thought there were blow out issues with the expanding foam

joecaption 05-07-2012 08:21 AM

Air sealing can be done under the house.
If you do plan on doing it outside I would use Tyvek not storm and Ice unless your siding is to close the the ground and your dealing with the siding rotting from splash back.

http://www.house-energy.com/AirLeaki...SillPlate.html

hand drive 05-07-2012 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lioncourt (Post 916401)
I thought there were blow out issues with the expanding foam


if done right with the right type of foam there is no problem of blow out. if done wrong expect a major blow out event!

framer52 05-07-2012 10:21 AM

cELLULOSE IS WHAT i WOULD RECOMMEND FOR RETRO INSULATING.

cHEAP AND IT CAN BE DONE BY diy TYPES.

bUY OVER 20 bags at the big box stores and they will allow you to use their machine for free.

Lioncourt 05-07-2012 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joecaption (Post 916402)
Air sealing can be done under the house.
If you do plan on doing it outside I would use Tyvek not storm and Ice unless your siding is to close the the ground and your dealing with the siding rotting from splash back.

http://www.house-energy.com/AirLeaki...SillPlate.html

Finished basement can't do anything inside

Gary in WA 05-07-2012 11:24 PM

Dense-pack cellulose would be my first choice, though you can't do that with a rental blower (not enough motor/pressure). As Joe said, the I&W shield is not for your wood rim. Better to remove the top and bottom sheathing (if horizontally applied) boards and air seal the wiring/plumbing holes with foam as well as add fire-blocking at both locations, all around the house, then foam those joints next to the plaster/lath and the added blocking. Just before replacing the board, caulk the fire-block for an air seal between sheathing board/fire-block framing. This will limit (immensely) the "stack effect" weather you use cellulose or f.g. Add tape or backer rod/caulk on the joint of sheathing boards at the rim area only ($$$) if it takes two boards there. Cellulose does not require a vapor retarder/barrier and your location doesn't either (for the f.g.).

The "Rain drop" H.W. is only 16perms, I'd go with Tyvek (58 perms), or two layers of felt paper (variable perms 5-50 perms the wetter it gets). If H.W. is used for an "air-barrier", tape the joints and be certain there are no "reverse laps". The "Brigade" uses EPS (not good) for water storage/wicking.

Some links, not in order; http://www.brigadeboard.com/installation/index.php
http://greenguard.pactiv.com/residen...-wrap.raindrop http://www.wag-aic.org/1999/WAG_99_baker.pdf
http://www.conservationtechnology.co...eakagePathways http://www.buildingscience.com/docum...l_seal_rev.pdf
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q...t5jlOsa_kZRRgw

Gary

Lioncourt 05-08-2012 04:49 AM

So you would just seal and insulate the tops and bottoms of the cavities, interesting. Hadn't thought of that one before

HalfHand 05-08-2012 10:25 PM

Don't know if you included this in your budget but...

Take the aluminum to the scrap yard and contact your local utility company and your can probably insulate and and replaced that 1953 black crap with 3/4" foam board for in effect free.

Don't know if there is any federal money left for upgrading insulation but if there is contact them too.

I'm moving and everything is packed but drilled holes and blown in insulation is not much better than nothing at all. I'm restoring a 1946 bungalow that this was done on and have pictures of multiple stud cavities with barely 1/3 full of insulation due to bridging.

GBrackins 05-08-2012 11:21 PM

check with your local utility company. some states have programs that will reimburse you some or all of the cost of insulating the exterior envelope when there was no insulation originally installed. these are normally operated through the local utilities.

Lioncourt 05-09-2012 09:21 AM

Pepco requires you use a certified-by-them contractor to do the work in order to get their rebate:(


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