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Old 10-05-2010, 01:30 PM   #1
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Shower Pan Liner in Tampa - Shower rebuild


Recently I decided to rebuild my bathroom and increase it in size by 1 foot in two directions. This was intended to add room to my incredibly small shower, and add amenities that the previous shower did not have.

I live in the Tampa Bay area of Florida and we live on concrete slabs, thus no basement.

The previous shower was lined with 2 inches of concrete on the walls and the shower pan was poured onto the terazzo(concrete) slab.

I went ahead and drywalled the bathroom walls and I used concrete board for the walls and bench in the shower. I filled the seams and the screw holes with concrete caulk.

While watching a tile installation video, they showed the shower area having a rubber membrane under the concrete shower pan and behind the concrete board walls.

I didn't think I needed it, but now I am wondering if I do?? The previous shower didn't have it.

Do I need to remove a portion of my concrete board and add this liner prior to pouring the shower pan?


Here is a photo of the shower...
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Last edited by ghowmedic; 10-05-2010 at 01:55 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 10-05-2010, 01:52 PM   #2
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Shower Pan Liner in Tampa - Shower rebuild


Concrete board does not use concrete caulk to seal the joints. You use a fiberglass tape designed for this and thinset the tape like you would tape drywall. There are a number of options to waterproof the shower and the base. The rubber membrane is one. Another is the Schluter system using Kerdi. Check out their website. For this, you can leave the cementboard in place.
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Old 10-14-2010, 04:58 PM   #3
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Shower Pan Liner in Tampa - Shower rebuild


Quote:
Originally Posted by ghowmedic View Post
I live in the Tampa Bay area of Florida and we live on concrete slabs, thus no basement.

I used concrete board for the walls and bench in the shower.
I filled the seams and the screw holes with concrete caulk.

While watching a tile installation video, they showed the shower area having a rubber membrane under the concrete shower pan and behind the concrete board walls.

I didn't think I needed it, but now I am wondering if I do?? The previous shower didn't have it.

Do I need to remove a portion of my concrete board and add this liner prior to pouring the shower pan?


Here is a photo of the shower...
Hi ghowmedic,

I'm a Tile Contractor in your area and use either Kerdi or a liquid surface membrane like HydroBan, Hydro Barrier or Redgard.

pan liners are good but never installed correctly here in Florida and it takes some knowledge to do one right with a pre slope,
wire on/over the curb and not nailing through the liner like most do down here.

your also not going to have much luck tying in the waterproofing to the drain you have there once you mud your shower floor.
you need to have the waterproofing membrane go into the clamping part of the drain.

you either need to do a "divot method" with a liquid membrane or use a kerdi drain with Kerdi membrane or a liquid membrane.

we must do 25+ waterproofed showers a year in the area since we are a tile and waterproofing specialist in the area.






Brian
www.ceramictec.com

Last edited by ceramictec; 10-14-2010 at 05:01 PM.
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Old 10-14-2010, 09:05 PM   #4
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Shower Pan Liner in Tampa - Shower rebuild


It looks like you are already using the quick-pitch kit and kirb-perfect from http://www.dixsystems.com/ I'm in the process of installing their product for my basement shower. I'd take a look at their site. They have some good videos to walk you through the whole process (even if you're not going to use their products). It sounds like you're saying you don't have a shower pan liner installed?...did I get that correct? I'd definately have a shower pan liner installed in some capacity (Dix Systems OneLiner or a standard membrane liner). Tile, grout and mortar fail overtime....that's why the liner needs to be in place. That liner needs a pre-pitch to it otherwise the water just sits in the liner (had a "tradesman" tell me that you don't need the pre-pitch...not a good idea....and not working with him anymore). Regarding the vapor barrier, my understanding is that you do want to have that installed. However since you have the cement board up already maybe you could get away with a good coating of Redgard to waterproof the whole shower. Either way (installing vapor barrier or not) I'd definately apply Redgard.

Just a thought, given you are using some of their products already, you might reach out to Dix Systems and explain what your doing and get their perspective. They're very helpful and can probably provide some insight into what to avoid. Yes, they are in business to sell their products, but I've found them to be very insightful and genuinely helpful.

Hope this helps and good luck with the project.
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Old 10-14-2010, 09:18 PM   #5
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Shower Pan Liner in Tampa - Shower rebuild


Dix would pretty much tell them what I have told him

plus if he continues to do the mud now with no liner it will just fester will mold and dirty portland water.
then he would get efflorescence in the grout within years.
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Old 12-18-2011, 12:29 AM   #6
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Hello All:
I'm doing a shower project for my sister for christmas, was looking for input. I'm doing much the same project as the above thread. This is a tub my sister wants to convert into a shower with a tile showerpan. I read all the bad reviews from Bud and others of the redi-tile system on other threads here at DIY, so I'm def not doing that, thanks for the forewarning! We have the quick pitch kit, and I'm going to durock and seal the walls.

My question is about the drain itself (see pic below). This is an old metal drain. All the drain kits I saw at home depot were for connecting to PVC. Is there some special kit to connect to an old cast iron system or am I missing something?

Incidentally, her building is a condo so there is no access to this plumbing from below.

I've read a bunch of these threads but any other advice is also much appreciated.

Thanks in advance!
Rob


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Old 12-18-2011, 04:59 AM   #7
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Shower Pan Liner in Tampa - Shower rebuild


Showers require a 2" drain'''Is this in a private home or a condo?

Looks like a concrete slab---correct?
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Old 12-18-2011, 11:37 AM   #8
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Hi Mike,
Yes that's right, it's a condo near Cocoa Beach FL. I'm not sure when it was built, but it looks like many decades ago. Her unit is on the second floor with a neighbor's unit below. Concrete floors and ceilings separate the units. There is no access to the plumbing from below as far as I can tell - it's going to be a challenge.
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Old 12-18-2011, 11:55 AM   #9
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You need to get a bit of info---that drain should be changed to two inch if possible.

In an ideal world the drain should be moved closer to center---the pitch when the drain is that close to the end looks odd and makes tiling a challenge.

Find out what the floor structure is made of and see if moving that drain is an option.

Also if the different units share plumbing---see if there is a way to get shut off valves for the shower mixer--

Mixers with built in shut offs are available if a good inline ball valve will not work.

Building a shower pan with pre-sloped mortar bed, liner and curb.

This link will give you the basics of hand packed shower bases---there are other systems that work also--so ask if you want something different.
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Old 12-18-2011, 12:05 PM   #10
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Great! thanks for the info Mike. I'm flying down there tomorrow so will get a good look at everything firsthand. I've got a week to get the job done. I do know that my sis has the water turned off to the bathroom already, so fortunately there are shut-offs...
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Old 12-30-2011, 08:03 PM   #11
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My project is now completed. I ended up using the pre-pitch/quick pitch kit with the thick pvc liner they recommended at the tile store. It took the better part of 3 days to get it all done. Pretty straightforward, and there are plenty of videos on YouTube that guided me through.

The only bogey was the drain pipe. The original drainpipe was 1-1/4 diameter copper. We cut it back as far as I could and replaced with 2" pvc. It was very tricky making the drain level with the floor.

Thanks for the input everyone.
Rob

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