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Old 08-19-2010, 02:38 AM   #1
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Should I chance removing this threshold?


Long story short, I have 2" missing from the bottom of my door. Contractor cut it off by accident a year ago. My front steps just recently started to look troubled and I think both are wetting the houses mud sill and floor boards. I've got to try and temporarily fix it so the mud sill doesn't rot.

I glued a 1 inch piece of wood to the bottom of the door last week. This was the first thing I've done that helped a lot. I can see the the threshold he installed is sticking up and letting water under it. There isn't any flashing. I think he told me threshold sits directly on top of my floor boards. He put a lot of silicone caulk under it and nailed it in, so I'm afraid when I try to get the threshold out, I may break my floor (old tung and grove pine). I'm hoping I can pry up the threshold enough to fit a reciprocating saw in that I bought yesterday. Should I chance it?

Then if I got the threshold out without damaging the floor boards, I was going to flash underneath (bought aluminum roof flashing) and put a normal height threshold in. I would pry or cut the the trim bottoms where they feel soft at same time and replace them with the closest wood from what I bought. (I just got lots of different size boards.) I'm guessing I should cut and install the threshold to fit the opening, then fill in the trim to sit on top of threshold or am I backwards on this.

My house is an old historical colonial brick townhouse, so I couldn't find the trim and I think the king and jack studs must be part of the trim since it buts right against a 1 or 2 brick party wall??? This is where I'm clueless because no matter what I read to prepare for this, it's about wood homes with studs behind siding and wooden door sills not marble sills, etc.

I won't need to remove the door, but would like to so I can nail on the new strip of wood instead of glue it on. Once again, I don't know how heavy doors are and I'm a 5'5 woman doing this alone. Are wood doors way heavy? Should I leave it on?

Any way, I'm guessing at how to do this. I posted a link to some pics below that you can enlarge by clicking on them. If you think I'm going to be doing this wrong, please give any advise you can on how to do it right. Thanks so much.


http://picasaweb.google.com/11032697...ntDoorAug2010#

http://picasaweb.google.com/11032697...rLastYear2009#

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Old 08-19-2010, 08:08 AM   #2
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Should I chance removing this threshold?


I'm sorry but I do not see the logic of a troubled front step impacting a threshold. There is no connection I see in the photos.
You mention that the threshold was replaced once before. Is this an accurate statement?
These doors are very heavy, you would need help. If the glue you used was exterior glue it will hold well enough if it was clamped correctly.
Flashing under a door generally requires that the whole frame come out as the flashing runs up the walls. If the threshold can be removed, cut the frame bottoms on both sides and slide the flashing under the jambs. Have the flashing bent so it kicks out on the bottom to keep the water off the sill.
If the bottoms of the exterior trim are rotted and you can't match them, you can use a flat stock to replace it that would mimic a base plinth block.
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Old 08-19-2010, 11:32 AM   #3
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Should I chance removing this threshold?


There is no doubt that water is coming in and must be stopped and soon. You can see the results in your flooring. As Ron said the flashing needs to be under the jamb as well or water will continue to come in and his suggestion of the plinth blocks to replace the bottom of your trim is right on also. I would suggest turning the edges of the flashing up on the inside to keep the water from continuing beyond the flashing. I always made a pan and siliconed the corners where the flashing was cut to make the turned up corners. Also a nice brass water diverter on your door would be a nice addition as there is no protection of your door to the weather.
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Old 08-19-2010, 09:29 PM   #4
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Should I chance removing this threshold?


Hi, I just got done and here are pics of what I found. If you see this, tell me what you think. Look at that there is cement under the wood trim. I'm stumped. Big question, should the flashing let water run outside?
http://picasaweb.google.com/11032697...3/TonightDoor#

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Originally Posted by jiju1943 View Post
There is no doubt that water is coming in and must be stopped and soon. You can see the results in your flooring. As Ron said the flashing needs to be under the jamb as well or water will continue to come in and his suggestion of the plinth blocks to replace the bottom of your trim is right on also. I would suggest turning the edges of the flashing up on the inside to keep the water from continuing beyond the flashing. I always made a pan and siliconed the corners where the flashing was cut to make the turned up corners. Also a nice brass water diverter on your door would be a nice addition as there is no protection of your door to the weather.
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Old 08-19-2010, 10:43 PM   #5
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Should I chance removing this threshold?


Yes it was replaced last year when the leak started, but he cut 2" wood off door bottom which let the rain pour in. The leak started by the weatherstrip which was nailed under the door came loose from getting banged on an electrical cord I pulled outside for the masons. It would get caught as I closed door leaving the house and so I'd just slam it shut. Big mistake!!! I see water at the very bottom of the basement sill which is why I questioned the step. I guess you mean it wouldn't come from step.

When you say "flashing kick out", you mean for it to drain out to outer sill if water gets in it, right?

http://picasaweb.google.com/11032697...3/TonightDoor# Got the threshold up today, pulled out all the silicon caulk and used a wood hardener. Going to fill in wood tomorrow, then cut the door stop trim pieces and probably all bottom wood to fit the flashing in. I looked up "plinth". I wish I had know about these but I'll just use the regular wood like you say and get it done before rain.

One side of the wood is higher than the rest. I think the rest was that height. I need the threshold to be level side to side? Should I sand it down or shim the rest up?

Thanks so much for this info. It is helping so much. Nothing I found today made sense till I read this. I hope you don't mind all the questions.


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Originally Posted by Ron6519 View Post
I'm sorry but I do not see the logic of a troubled front step impacting a threshold. There is no connection I see in the photos.
You mention that the threshold was replaced once before. Is this an accurate statement?
These doors are very heavy, you would need help. If the glue you used was exterior glue it will hold well enough if it was clamped correctly.
Flashing under a door generally requires that the whole frame come out as the flashing runs up the walls. If the threshold can be removed, cut the frame bottoms on both sides and slide the flashing under the jambs. Have the flashing bent so it kicks out on the bottom to keep the water off the sill.
If the bottoms of the exterior trim are rotted and you can't match them, you can use a flat stock to replace it that would mimic a base plinth block.
Ron
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Old 08-20-2010, 05:46 AM   #6
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Should I chance removing this threshold?


It looks like your concrete step is sloped to the door. Have you put a level on the step?
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Old 08-20-2010, 08:43 AM   #7
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Should I chance removing this threshold?


Before you install the threshold, check the slope as Kwikfishron suggests. Unless this is sloped to the street, the leak will continue.
If this is a wood threshold, you should seal all the sides with a marine poly before you install it. The door gap on the bottom should be sealed so neither wind or water can get it. The lack of a storm door makes this very important. They make thresholds with a rubber gasket that will seal the bottom gap. Some are adjustable, some are not.
For the flashing, you want to put a continuous bead of a silicone caulk accross the front to seal it from water. You want to do the same for the threshold when that gets installed. Also put a bead of caulking where the wood and flashing meet so water doesn't go under the wood.
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Old 08-22-2010, 09:34 PM   #8
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Should I chance removing this threshold?


Hi, I checked the step with a level and it slopes to the street but the bubbles just reach the top of level, so not much slope. Most of the interior wood under threshold is now lower or even with the marble, so the threshold wont slope out. His threshold was level and I see now why his threshold lifted. You can only nail the back of it into wood, so he just used silicone. The left side of the interior wood floor is still at the nomal hieght, about an 1/8" over marble. Should I add some wood shims or a putty stick? My original threshold was a completely rounded dome, no flat surface. Don't know if it was nailed but the only style they sell is a flat top oak.

I took off a bit of the door stop trims and can see the marble behind it may be level??? and has a spooned area where one small leak was. It's just exactly like someone pressed a spoon in. I can see the water was getting in between jam and frame, but how ever it is getting in, I think it is getting down between the floor and marble. I see there was a thin fill of mortar or cement at one time.

http://picasaweb.google.com/11032697...3/FridaysPics#

Here are fridays picks. I'm not sure what to do. I was hoping to cut out the rotted jam bottoms but I see they are nailed into shims and the bottom one looks like it may have my door chime wire in it. It's the first time I've cut wood and I'm starting to loose confidence. Did a crappy job of it and will need to go look for the right type of saw to do this, maybe a pull saw/dove tail??? I pulled the caulk off the very bottom of jam and very thick, hard white (caulk?) or something is supporting the jam. I'm going to have to replace it. Do you have any idea what this may be. My caulk never comes out like this, or any suggestions of a saw or saw blade that cuts a thinner line and can get in a tight area?
Next problem is I see they used pieces of the same marble as the step to put under framing wood. On the side I opened up the most, I can see it is supporting the wood and some of it is much smaller and loose. Should I put some marble tiles under there?

It started to rain today (and may for next few days) so I did my best with duct tape. Any advice would be so appreciated and as always, thank you so much for getting me this far. I came on to thank you all last 2 nights and doze off both times, but thank you again.

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