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Old 03-21-2013, 05:36 AM   #1
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Shed building questions


I'm in the middle of building a 10'x16' shed and have some questions about framing the walls and roof. I have built the floor and sheathed with 3/4" plywood.
I'm confident about constructing the actual walls but had questions about sheathing it. If I sheath the walls before putting up do I install the siding flush to the double top plate and if so, do I compensate for that added thickness on the birdsmouth cut on the rafters?
If not what do you do to cover the gap from the rafters and the walls?
I have many other questions, but will start with this. Thanks for any advice.

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Old 03-21-2013, 06:14 AM   #2
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Your call on the sheathing---if you do that, of course you need to make the birds mouth longer to account for the thickness--

If you have the sheathing below the birds mouth---that gap is usually hidden by the soffit and facia---

It's a shed----often the designs do not use soffit and facia----what are your plans?

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Old 03-21-2013, 07:28 AM   #3
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I woud install the sheathing so it's flush with the top plate and also extend it past the bottom plate an inch or two. That way it will hide the edge of the plywood floor.
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Old 03-21-2013, 07:48 AM   #4
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I will either have exposed rafters with a fascia board running across or go for the soffit which seems a little more difficult...haven't decided.

I also have a question about roof overhangs. If I want 10-12" of overhangs on the sides, do I simply attach blocks from the outside rafter toenailed into the last rafter on the building?
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Old 03-21-2013, 08:02 AM   #5
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At least two differant ways to frame it.
The one on the left is stronger, just more work.
With that long an over hang trying to use the "ladder method" can end up sagging over time.
Adding soffit vents and a ridge vent would help make the shingles last longer and and help in the summer to keep it cooler.
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Old 03-21-2013, 08:27 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Charlestoncrane View Post
I will either have exposed rafters with a fascia board running across or go for the soffit which seems a little more difficult...haven't decided.

I also have a question about roof overhangs. If I want 10-12" of overhangs on the sides, do I simply attach blocks from the outside rafter toenailed into the last rafter on the building?

plan a sub fascia for the rafter tails on the overhangs that go past the gable walls the amount chosen for the overhang distance and make the ridge board extend past the gable walls the same amount to catch the ( fly rafter) - the outermost rafter that hangs out in the air on gable walls. The fly rafter will match the pattern of all the other rafters except there will be no need for a birds mouth... fill in every 2' up the fly rafter with blocks that tie back to the last rafter ( gable wall rafter )sitting above the walls. plan the rafter above the walls ( gable wall rafter) to be flush to the outside of the wall framing.

example... with 12" overhang the fly rafter fill in blocks will be 10 1/2" long toe nailed or through nailed to the gable rafter and fly rafter.

wall sheathing needs to go past both top plates and just cut your birds mouth notch 5/8" or 3/4" bigger to compensate for the sheathing when setting rafters.

as Joe mentions, put in soffit ventilation that keeps bugs out but lets air flow through the building. a perforated hardie soffit panel is easy and ready, aluminum strip vent and 3/8" BC plywood is another option...

edit, wanted to add... for the ridge board use a larger (upsize) than the rafters and make the overhang notch the same as the size of the rafters so the ridge does not stick down past the soffit on the eaves.

Last edited by hand drive; 03-21-2013 at 08:38 AM.
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Old 03-21-2013, 12:53 PM   #7
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Thanks for that last tip about notching the end of the ridge beam.

I also have some questions about the ridge beam and the support needed coming from the side wall top plates. Do you simply brace it underneath with a 2x4 and rest the ridge beam on top and possibly add a support board on either
side that comes up an inch or two (whatever the gable wall rafter allows)??

Also I wanted to know what height to place to ridge beam (2x8) in order for a 5/12 pitch (I think that's pretty standard with not to much pitch) no snow loads here to worry about. The shed is 10' deep. Thanks for all this help, really appreciate it.
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Old 03-22-2013, 08:32 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Charlestoncrane View Post
Thanks for that last tip about notching the end of the ridge beam.

I also have some questions about the ridge beam and the support needed coming from the side wall top plates. Do you simply brace it underneath with a 2x4 and rest the ridge beam on top and possibly add a support board on either
side that comes up an inch or two (whatever the gable wall rafter allows)??

Also I wanted to know what height to place to ridge beam (2x8) in order for a 5/12 pitch (I think that's pretty standard with not to much pitch) no snow loads here to worry about. The shed is 10' deep. Thanks for all this help, really appreciate it.

I always lay out (find) the center ridge on the wall top plate and put (nail)a 2x that is calculated to sit under the ridge at both walls and set the ridge on that first. while using a level, plumb and brace the vertical 2x with 2 pieces of cross bracing both tied to the wall and back out onto the ridge a few feet. this establishes the ridge placement and holds it in place to start setting rafters. layout the rafter placement atop the wall plates and establish that layout onto the ridge (both sides)before you even set it up in the air.

for a 10' shed with 5/12 pitch ( 5x5) simple calcs that are not to confusing just cut the two 2x4 verticals for the 2x8 ridge to sit on 22 1/4" . that is 5x5 = 25" minus 2 3/4" for the height difference of the ridge and rafters,2x8 compared to 2x6. Again, without getting to technical once the ridge is set on the verticals and braced to be plumb, measure from the top of ridge back down to the inner edge of the top wall plate and that is the start of the seat cut meaurement. when you pull that measurement on the rafter it will cross the rafter from long point at ridge across the width of the rafter to the other side (bottom side of rafter)to get the short point (start)of the seat cut. once you find that then add the thickness of the wall and then the overhang to get the rafter tails.

here are the angles. 5/12 is 23* (degrees) . that's the angle at the ridge and the end of the rafter out on the tail. 67* is the seat cut ( 90* minus 23* )

edit, just re calc'd, might need to drop the number on the 2x under the ridge by 2" because of the seat cut being 2" notched and the 5x5 being measured on the outer edge of the wall where the seat cut is deepest...

re- over edit .. wanted to add that after the post under the beam- with the outside gable rafter in place placed to the edge of the gable walls add a plate under the gable rafter that butts up to the ridge post and down to the top of the top plate, then you frame the gable wall to that plate. I usually just go on chosen layout and let the ridge post be what ever it is and go with the stud layout so sheathing works out at the 8' seams.

Last edited by hand drive; 03-22-2013 at 11:09 AM.
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Old 03-22-2013, 08:38 AM   #9
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http://www.blocklayer.com/Roof/GableEng.aspx
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Old 03-22-2013, 08:55 AM   #10
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If you use the "step off method" when cutting the first rafter for the pattern it won't make any difference how you've sheathed the walls. The wall thickness and the ridge will both be taken into account and your rafter fit will be perfect every time.
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Old 03-24-2013, 08:25 AM   #11
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haven't seen the original poster post back at this thread. Hopefully he did not use the ridge post measurement I mentioned earlier,I forgot to figure the vertical height of the rafter itself out on the edge of the wall which for a 5/12 is 4 1/2" off the top plate already including the seat cut. That makes for 29 1/2" to the top of the ridge, so minus the width of the ridge and that leaves 22 1/4". it looks like my ridge post measurement was actually right, but not sure how I calculated it then
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Old 03-24-2013, 08:57 AM   #12
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No, I haven't started with the roof yet, it's been raining for the last two days. Thans for all the help.
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Old 03-24-2013, 09:39 AM   #13
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Ahh, there you are. thanks for posting Charlestoncrane, I'm glad to help. it has been rainy like crazy here and making it hard to plan a work schedule.

There is one more bit of advice I can offer for the rafter system. after you have the rafter pattern, place the outer rafters, gable rafters first at both gable walls and then do a few sets of counter opposing rafters down the length of the ridge to keep the ridge straight with your rafters. then fill in with the rest of the rafters. that type of rafter placement helps to make sure the ridge does not get curvy as you build it. every now and then out at one side of the building, sight the ridge at eye level to make sure everything is straight as you go along.

It helps to make sure the walls are straight before the roof is built also. on the outer edges of the walls at the inside of the structure use a couple of 2x4 blocks tacked to the wall top plates with a string line attached to them and have another 2x block that you can use as a gauge. pull the string tight at both corners and then go along the wall with the gauge and make sure the gauge matches with the corners. you can use 2x4's and brace back to the other wall on the other side of the building down near the bottom plate to hold the walls straight while you build the roof. and/or stakes out in the dirt on the outside that braces to the wall. you can probably get by with one brace in at 8' (center) but might need 2 braces along the 16'span.

another way you could do it is measure out on the corners from top plate to top plate and cut a 2x that long and nail it down from above to your plates at the middle of the 16' span. that will make sure that the center span matches the outer corners. and yet another variation of the two- if one of the walls are really out then brace the bad wall and then use the 2x on top to tie them together afterwards instead of having to brace both walls.

edit... not sure if this has been mentioned but plan on having ceiling joists in the building also that connect to the sides of the rafters and help hold the roof up by keeping the walls from spreading...

one more edit.. your ridge will be longer than 16' so that poses a problem so plan to have a splice in the ridge at some point along it. with the ridge splice centered scab 30 1/2" blocks on both sides of the ridge that fits between 2 rafters that are on layout and cut one set of rafters (the middle set) 1 1/2" short to accommodate the ridge scab... you'll have to cut a bevel on top of the scab so it does not protrude up into the roof sheathing plane or drop the scab down a hair to clear the sheathing

Last edited by hand drive; 03-24-2013 at 10:08 AM.
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Old 03-24-2013, 06:43 PM   #14
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Thanks for all the advice hand drive. The weather has really put everything on hold, but it looks to clear up for the next week! I have a local lumber supply place that actually carries a 2x8x18 for the ridge beam, I just have to figure out how to get it back to the house.
I was actually able to get the back wall frame today and put on the 8" oc t1-11... Looks good. Keep you posted
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Old 03-24-2013, 08:09 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Fairview View Post
If you use the "step off method" when cutting the first rafter for the pattern it won't make any difference how you've sheathed the walls. The wall thickness and the ridge will both be taken into account and your rafter fit will be perfect every time.

only if the plates are level and straight. if hey sag or bow out they wont fit. bracing the walls properly is very important for the correct results, also with step off for every foot of run there is chance of error of 1/8- 3/16".. every time you step it adds up
compare it to calculating the theoretical line length or actual line lenght for the rafter and you can be off by up to 1/2" or more. figure out your feet of run for the rafter then use the rafter tables to find your unit line length. if your math is correct the only chance of error is by cutting on the wrong side of the line


Last edited by woodworkbykirk; 03-24-2013 at 08:14 PM.
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