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Old 01-02-2009, 12:21 PM   #1
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second floor overhang issue


hey everyone!

Just looking for some advice, I have a frustrating situation on my house,I apologize for not posting a picture, but if anyone wants one ill go out with my camera.

So I have a two story house, on the front facing wall on the second story, the front of the house overhangs approximately two feet, this runs the length of the house, living room, bedrooms etc.

So the top floor overhangs the basment which is partially underground. so the part that is overhanging is actually the floor joists cavity from the second floor. My problem is that these rooms get cold on the floor where the overhang is, the cold is radiating in from the overhang.

Underneath the overhang it has been capped with 1/2 plywood which i have pryed off to find 12" thick pink batts in between the floor joists.

So my question is, what can i do to have some sort of a thermal barrior for this overhang, I think its good for insulation, but the cold seems to leech right throgh the plywood cap and into the floor joists and right through to the wood floor above making it quite cold on the rooms above.

any suggestions for stopping this cold transfer?

thanks guys!

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Old 01-02-2009, 01:37 PM   #2
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second floor overhang issue


Some pictures would help a lot.

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Old 01-02-2009, 03:18 PM   #3
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second floor overhang issue


Sure you bet!





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Old 01-02-2009, 04:16 PM   #4
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second floor overhang issue


I have a similar issue that was addressed to me by my Energy Auditor last spring. The Cantilevers need to be sealed. You can see what I'm talking about from the link provided. You'll have to block this off from the main part of the house.

IMO, I think you might want to seal this board from your images with some caulk before you secure it in place. Then I'd fill in any cracks with caulk and/or foam. Caulk up to 1/4" and foam in the larger cracks.

Best of luck.
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Old 01-02-2009, 04:16 PM   #5
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second floor overhang issue


Not for nothing, but that insulation's pretty thick. If anything check for fit up. I was expecting to see worse. My house is very similar (1975 bi-level). I have cold weather issues, but it's my windows that suck. I've inspected my attic and each of the overhang areas, and the soffit insulation is in decent shape. But I can walk by the windows and feel the draft. Plus my furnace is original equipment, even though there are 2 significant additions on the home.

Check the obvious: drafts, insulation, caulking. Some of those pieces of siding in your pics have pretty decent gaps. Now that the soffit is half out, check for a vapor barrier, and caulk all the gaps. One issue I have in the addition above my garage is the guy who ran the duct through the overhang into into the wall space did a lousy job insulating. I can feel the hot air coming in through the duct during the summer, and the cold air coming in during the winter. But I've been busy, so I haven't had time to rip out the garage ceiling to redo it. So check that, also.

Also, my eldest daughter's bedroom is in the room that corresponds to windows below your overhang in your pic. You can store meat in that room during the winter. I'm going to check this summer, but if the rear wall of the house is any measure, I've got crappy foundation wall insulation.
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Old 01-02-2009, 04:18 PM   #6
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second floor overhang issue


Also, from what appears to be dirt on your pink fiberglass is where the air was coming in and the fiberglass is acting like a filter. Something also pointed out to me for my rim joists in the basement.

Best of luck!
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Old 01-02-2009, 05:58 PM   #7
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second floor overhang issue


awesome, thanks for the replies guys!

ya looking at the catilever diagarm, i see a few problems, there is no blocking in place, and there is no vapour barrier, I dont know how addressible these will be, i might be able to set something up with some rigid insulation as blocking, as i dont know how effective trying to get blocks of 2x12 in there will be.

hmm this one will be interesting!

thanks again guys!

Brett
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Old 01-02-2009, 07:05 PM   #8
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second floor overhang issue


Two feet of insulation would not make this situation any better! Insulation can only slow the flow of heat! Insulation cannot generate heat! For instance, a box can be made with R30 insulation all around, but eventually, the inside temperature will become equal to the outside temperature! Now, if a incandescent lamp is placed inside, the inside temperature will stay warm, as heat that is lost will be replaced by heat from the lamp! The problem in this instance is that heat that is lost through the insulation, is not being replaced! Heated air must be allowed to circulate between the insulation and the sub-floor above! My son had a similar problem, where the ceiling in the basement was drywalled, and there was no airflow in the joist cavity! Installing vent louver's in the ceiling resolved this problem!
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Old 01-02-2009, 08:11 PM   #9
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hey Wildie, im not sure I completely understand what your saying, in this case the living room directly above the area shown in the pictures attached is a regularly heated room, its just that exessive cold air is penatrating through to floor below through the joist cavity that hangs over the basement celing on the outside of the house.

I wasnt planning on adding another foot of insulation, i was simply pondering adding some cut pieces of rigid insulation within the joist cavities to serve as blocking down the joist cavity

in the basement below i have a standard drywalled celeing, and im not sure what your suggesting, installing vent louvers in the finished celeing of my basement? i dont know if ive seen that on the interior of a basement celeing before, are you saying i need to heat the joist cavities? can you provide some more info or show me an image of that?

thanks for your input i appreciate it
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Old 01-02-2009, 08:28 PM   #10
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second floor overhang issue


You could give a call to a local insulation company that does spray foam and see what they would charge. Spray foam should cut down on the air infiltration and give a better thermal barrier than the fiberglass insulation.
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Old 01-02-2009, 10:33 PM   #11
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second floor overhang issue


Quote:
Originally Posted by jammer7 View Post
hey Wildie, im not sure I completely understand what your saying, in this case the living room directly above the area shown in the pictures attached is a regularly heated room, its just that exessive cold air is penatrating through to floor below through the joist cavity that hangs over the basement celing on the outside of the house.

I wasnt planning on adding another foot of insulation, i was simply pondering adding some cut pieces of rigid insulation within the joist cavities to serve as blocking down the joist cavity

in the basement below i have a standard drywalled celeing, and im not sure what your suggesting, installing vent louvers in the finished celeing of my basement? i dont know if ive seen that on the interior of a basement celeing before, are you saying i need to heat the joist cavities? can you provide some more info or show me an image of that?

thanks for your input i appreciate it
What most people fail to understand is that insulation merely slows the flow of heat! Its akin to water flowing through a screen. The finer the mesh, the slower the flow. Never the less, flow it will do! A house may be insulated, but if the furnace is out it will eventually cool to the outside temperature! In your case a heat source is needed to replace the heat lost through the insulation. At the moment, the only heat source is from above, and through the floor and this flow is not enough to make up the heat loss through the insulation. Somehow, you will have to find a way for warm air to circulate between the insulation and the floor above. Many times I've seen pipes frozen under a sink! The solution was to leave the cupboard door open and then there's no more freezing! Same idea!
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Old 01-03-2009, 01:10 PM   #12
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second floor overhang issue


One last question as i think i have plan of action to deal with this in the way that is the most feasable at this time,

if you look at the pictures i posted, is there any value in me removing the insulation so the floor joists and subfloor above is exposed and put a continuous piece of vapour barrier, that is wrapped along the bottom of the joists as well? and them put the insulation back in the joist cavities, that would be now wrapped in poly?

what do you guys think, its kinda hokey but i cant really get a vapour barrier in anyother way.
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Old 01-03-2009, 06:25 PM   #13
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I would investigate the spray foam idea mentioned above; shooting the joist bays, which would serve as a better air barrier than that fiberglass.
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Old 01-03-2009, 06:50 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jammer7 View Post
One last question as i think i have plan of action to deal with this in the way that is the most feasable at this time,

if you look at the pictures i posted, is there any value in me removing the insulation so the floor joists and subfloor above is exposed and put a continuous piece of vapour barrier, that is wrapped along the bottom of the joists as well? and them put the insulation back in the joist cavities, that would be now wrapped in poly?

what do you guys think, its kinda hokey but i cant really get a vapour barrier in anyother way.
If the insulation was installed correctly, there should be a vapor barrier in place, under the sub-floor! If not, what you suggest is a good idea, but this will not make it any warmer! If it were mine, I would install foam ventilation channels (commonly used in attics) between the joists, closed at the ouside end with insulation, but open to ceiling space inside. Then reinstall the insulation and the lower panel! Then try to get some warm air circulating up there!
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Old 01-04-2009, 08:48 AM   #15
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You don't want air circulating in this area. Thats ridiculous. Why would you want to ventilate into a basement when the process of eliminating drafts and improving efficiency is to seal and insulate??

This area of the house needs to be "sealed" and is in no way similar to an attic or roof. Block the area as shown earlier, seal the blocking as well as the horizontal area that sticks out, replace the fiberglass to fit snug, (foam would work great too) maybe replace the board that was removed while using an adhesive around the edges, seal perimeter again and be done with it.

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