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-   -   sagging kitchen off back of house (http://www.diychatroom.com/f19/sagging-kitchen-off-back-house-17897/)

DanBress 03-02-2008 09:34 AM

sagging kitchen off back of house
 
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I have a house built in 1927, that I am living in/remodeling. I am currently working on the kitchen, which is an 8x10' room that sits off the back of the house on the first floor. It sits atop room that is off the back of the basement.

The kitchen construction is standard wood framing, and sits atop a stone wall room in the basement. The stone room is not as deep as the kitchen, so the kitchen hangs off about 2 feet.

The problem I am having is that the kitchen is sagging about 1 inch over that 2 foot span in the back, and I am trying to figure out what I can do.

I was told I should have a structural engineer look at it, and consider jacking it up, and supporting it. I am not sure how they would add additional supports once jacked as the joists run parallel with the back of the house, instead of perpendicular.

What would you do here?
Get someone to jack it and find a way to support it?
correct the slope internally with either shims or self leveling compound?
leave it as is, and have an un level kitchen floor.

I know I am not giving you all the info, if you need more just ask and i will try and get it.

Dan

gregzoll 03-02-2008 09:38 PM

With that size, it would be easier tearing it down from the Top down, and restructure, then try to jack. The key is to make it right, and not worry later. From the looks, this is a Semi, or Brownstone. Is the unit next to your's showing the same signs?

Maintenance 6 03-03-2008 03:52 PM

If the joists are running parallel with the back of the house you can jack forever and you will still need to either tear the joists out and rerun them the proper direction or a build a support wall underneath the edge of the addition. By now the flooring, plus all of the other parts like top and bottom plates have taken a set that you'll have a tough time getting rid of. I agree, tear it down and start again. If you brace it properly, you might be able to salvage the roof. Sorry, I calls it like I sees it.

DanBress 03-03-2008 04:08 PM

Hmmm.... I am kind of not crazy about having to tear everything down. I have to assume my neighbors are having similar problems. I'm gonna try and talk to them about this issue.

Thanks for the answers.

redline 03-03-2008 04:13 PM

Do you have the floor(underlayment) removed inside this area?

Can you post photos of the joists from the interior?

DanBress 03-03-2008 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redline (Post 103953)
Do you have the floor(underlayment) removed inside this area?

Can you post photos of the joists from the interior?

Unfortunately, I just down the subfloor in this room.
There were joists running parallel to the back of the house the whole way. When it got to the part where the foundation ended, there was some kind of concrete/plaster like material in between all the joists.

What exactly, would you want a picture of?

AtlanticWBConst. 03-03-2008 04:28 PM

The reality of all this is:

a.) It was built completely wrong.

b.) You could go ahead and attempt to jack up the rear corners, or the length of the outside rim joist, of the area, and those areas could end up "tearing away" from the rest of the joist arrangement (the area above the stone, may not move with the portion that is being jacked up) - They may not be all properly tied-in together.

c.) You could check on the structural framing and determine if the area, will in fact, theoretically rise all-together, with no separation damage.
The only way to accomplish that, would be to jack it, and install a wide triple beam (bolted together) or a laminated beam arrangement, that will sit under that end joist (running parallel to the house) and also sit under any joists running into/or attached...into that end beam (rim joist). These would then sit on PT 5x4's, which could then sit on 4'-0" deep pier footings (dimensioned to accomadate the calculated load of the areas supported). Obviously, using the proper fasteners and brackets and required building permit.

Now, "c." is just a very loose assumption, and a "tossed-out-there" idea, as I have no clue what is going on in other areas of that "cantilevered kitchen thingy".
There is alot of inspectional, and checking-into, work, I would personally do, way before, I would even consider dropping off any lumber, concrete, forms, jacks, etc, and the required building permits for such work.....

Dependant on what is going on with that inner construction, there is alot that could go right, but based on the way it was built, there is alot that could potentially go wrong.

DanBress 03-03-2008 04:35 PM

Well, thanks for the honest input. I need to talk to some people about how much it would cost to rebuild the existing structure properly. Then I'll decide whether thats worth doing, or whether its better just to deal with what I have.

gregzoll 03-03-2008 07:27 PM

My guess by yourself if you can salvage the Vinyl Siding, Gutters, and windows, probably $5,000.00 to $6,000.00 with permits. Having someone else, you are probably looking at $10,000.00 to $15,000.00.

DanBress 03-03-2008 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gregzoll (Post 104022)
My guess by yourself if you can salvage the Vinyl Siding, Gutters, and windows, probably $5,000.00 to $6,000.00 with permits. Having someone else, you are probably looking at $10,000.00 to $15,000.00.


I definitely do not consider my self qualified enough to do this project... I'm going to have to give this some careful thought as to how I proceed. I wonder how long the floor has been sloped like this, and if this is something I need to just deal with. The house is pretty old, and I am not expecting perfection.

gregzoll 03-03-2008 09:12 PM

First thing, would be to draw up plans, then meet with a Architect & have them complete final drawings to submit to the City Permit Board. Then from there, work on finding a reputable contractor that will do the work but not cost over the bid.

As for the final design of the base to keep it looking like the original, you could go with a poured foundation & footers, and use a manufactured stone product that replicates the existing design, but with the strength of Concrete.

DanBress 03-03-2008 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gregzoll (Post 104073)
First thing, would be to draw up plans, then meet with a Architect & have them complete final drawings to submit to the City Permit Board. Then from there, work on finding a reputable contractor that will do the work but not cost over the bid.

As for the final design of the base to keep it looking like the original, you could go with a poured foundation & footers, and use a manufactured stone product that replicates the existing design, but with the strength of Concrete.


Why would the base need to be replaced?

gregzoll 03-03-2008 09:20 PM

Until you have an engineer inspect the structure, you will not know, but better to include in the drawings as a "What if" possibility if you have to. Always better to look at the worst case scenario, then find out after you committed to the minimum spec's.


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