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Old 06-28-2013, 01:03 PM   #1
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sagging ceiling, roof sag


New here. Hope I make this clear. Not an expert.

I have a 25 X 22 ft room. 2 X 8 ceiling joists running the 22 foot direction. These are single boards with very little support. My roof is supported with collar ties ( 1 X 6's) only and a couple vertical supports tied to ceiling joists.

The sagging ceiling is either a weak ceiling joist or settling of the roof on the vertical support. Either way it's very obvious where the sag is. Due to the poor support of the roof it is settling and slowly pushing out the walls or at least pushing out the blocks that are on top of the walls in the attic.

Structural engineer wants to put ledgers on the walls where the roof rafters tie into the walls to support the blocks that have pushed out 1.5 inches. Then jack up and and sister in a 2 X 8 X 22 joist next to every existing joist ( maybe 20 of them). Then put in additional roof bracing (kind of in the shape of a vee) to support the roof.

His other option was to run a beam on the inside of the room across the 25 ft span to support the ceiling joists or run a beam in the attic the same way and tie the ceiling joists to them.

He said the ledger is a must. and roof supports a must. Giving me the choice of ceiling support.

Sorry it's long, any thoughts?

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Old 06-28-2013, 01:26 PM   #2
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sagging ceiling, roof sag


If this is a real engineer, not just some friend of a friend and he on site then go with his advice.
Sure sounds like someone removed a supporting wall at some point in time.
That's way to long a span for a 2 X 8.

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Old 06-28-2013, 05:45 PM   #3
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sagging ceiling, roof sag


real, paid SE. Before he came everything I was researching online kept referring to a crossback and was just wondering if maybe that was an option
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Old 06-28-2013, 06:29 PM   #4
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sagging ceiling, roof sag


His plan sounds like a good solution---there is not enough strength in a 2x8 22 feet long to even support a stiff back---

Follow his instructions.
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Old 06-29-2013, 08:32 AM   #5
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sagging ceiling, roof sag


sounds like money well spent. I'd go with the engineer's recommendations. price out the two options.
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Old 06-29-2013, 08:41 AM   #6
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sagging ceiling, roof sag


if there is access on the side walls and you're ok with a beam in the room a beam placed into a bearing pocket jack stud assembly taking the weight down to the footer will level out and hold up the joists mid span and then the roof could be braced down to the top side of the beam as well. that seems like an approach that fixes both the roof and joists. the downside- 25' is a long ways so it will be a big beam. are the ceilings high ceilings?

sistering the joists is possibly more work but the load points for the joists are already established (outside walls) and after sistered you could re-enforce the roof off of the sistered joists.
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Old 06-29-2013, 10:39 AM   #7
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Thank you for the replys. From anyones experience, he wants me to sister every 2X8X22 joist. Could I do every other one and save some money and time? Otherwise that is a lot of insulation and removal of blocks between the joists. Do I glue and nail or screw the joists together? While i was waiting on estimates I wanted to start jacking up the sag in ceiling. Was thinking putting a section of 2X8 on ground to support the jack and a section of 2X8 on the ceiling along the sagging joist and crank it up slow with a bottle jack using a 4X4 to support it. Any thoughts?
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Old 06-29-2013, 10:45 AM   #8
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you could do that and save a "little money". of course then you would not be in compliance with the engineer's instruction and if the building department needs the engineer's sign-off on the construction you'd have to go back and redo it.

I'd put up what he said then if something goes wrong the engineer's on the hook, fail to do so and you're on the hook.
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Old 06-29-2013, 01:46 PM   #9
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let's say I want to run a beam across the 25 ft span and attach all the ceiling joists to it and then the extra roof supports. I'm going to support the beam on load bearing walls.
The SE mentioned engineered lumber. What would the dimensions of the beam need to be. I would like to start price comparison's. I would have just ran down 2 or 3 2X8X25's tied together and called that my beam if i could find them in 25 ft lengths that is. Just to let you know I have paid the initial 'come out and look' fee to the SE but if he writes stuff up it's going to cost more is why I'm on here picking the experts minds.
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Old 06-29-2013, 02:50 PM   #10
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(3)2x8 will not get the job done, or should I say get the job done correctly.

sounds like you need to get the engineer to specify the beam and the connections needed.

you can ask on forums like this trying to save a buck or two, but in the end would you trust the information provided? If you would, you may get answers and probably will not be satisfied with the results.
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Old 06-29-2013, 02:55 PM   #11
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let's say I want to run a beam across the 25 ft span and attach all the ceiling joists to it and then the extra roof supports. I'm going to support the beam on load bearing walls.
The SE mentioned engineered lumber. What would the dimensions of the beam need to be. I would like to start price comparison's. I would have just ran down 2 or 3 2X8X25's tied together and called that my beam if i could find them in 25 ft lengths that is. Just to let you know I have paid the initial 'come out and look' fee to the SE but if he writes stuff up it's going to cost more is why I'm on here picking the experts minds.

You'll get opinions here but not much more,go with the engineers advice and you can rest easy when it's done.
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Old 06-30-2013, 12:27 PM   #12
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You guys are right. The SE said the best do it yourself method would be to sister in the the 2X8X22's. Talking to a couple people last night, they said it would be easier to just tear down all the dry wall and insulation in the ceiling and add the 'sisters' in from the bottom instead of doing all the work in the attic. He said most contractors would rather just put up new drywall and texture. It would be messier and a bit more money but is this the best way to go.
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Old 07-01-2013, 08:00 AM   #13
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sagging ceiling, roof sag


When you think about getting a 22' 2X8 into a finished attic and manuvering it into the proper position.....yeah it does sound like the best option is to remove the ceiling.
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Old 07-01-2013, 07:01 PM   #14
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Quote:
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You guys are right. The SE said the best do it yourself method would be to sister in the the 2X8X22's. Talking to a couple people last night, they said it would be easier to just tear down all the dry wall and insulation in the ceiling and add the 'sisters' in from the bottom instead of doing all the work in the attic. He said most contractors would rather just put up new drywall and texture. It would be messier and a bit more money but is this the best way to go.

after drywall demo pre cut the joists and sit them up where they go except leave them laying on their sides. Get everything jacked up where it needs to be andf install the sister joists to the original. setting the joists up there first works out " the jacking equipment is in the way for the joists" scenario...
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Old 07-01-2013, 10:15 PM   #15
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Good idea. one side of my roof rafters are the rafters over my porch. This is not part of the 22 foot span. Porch has its own ceiling joists. My porch has pushed out about 1.5 inches where the roof has flatened out. When I'm jacking up my sagging ceiling joists, is there any hope of pushing the porch 4X4's back into a more vertical stance. My SE said it's fine where it is, just support it better. I've got a friend that is going to help me and he says he has a cranking pulley that may pull the wall back upright if we take pressure off the roof with the jacking up of the joists. Any sense to this?

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