Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Building & Construction

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 07-30-2011, 11:30 PM   #1
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 70
Share |
Default

Rotten bottom plate & studs. (Photos)


Two of the walls that are in this condition are exterior facing wells. Another is an interior wall.

The bottom plate needs to be replaced nearly all the way across. Approximately 12 inches of the bottom of the studs also has rot. The studs themselves aren't nearly as bad as the bottom plate, which makes sense considering it's a wood on wood relationship vs. wood on concrete.

It may be hard to tell from the photos, but do you think we could get away with a wood repair chemical on the studs? The bottom plate is definitely toast. I don't have a humidity meter to test the remaining drywall higher up the wall but we do have a dehumidifier running 24/7 in the room to help dry things out.

Our home is Circa 1960 so I assume the bottom plate is likely not pressure treated lumber. We figured this was an issue throughout the home but we were surprised to see it this bad. It's literally mush.

Suggestions on how to proceed?












JustADoc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2011, 11:47 PM   #2
Too Old
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: South of North
Posts: 345
Default

Rotten bottom plate & studs. (Photos)


It may be mold and starting from the outside of the wall.

__________________
"Yeah, it's a nice garage, but you have to keep it heated at all times so it doesn't mess up your roof line."
havalife is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2011, 11:48 PM   #3
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 70
Default

Rotten bottom plate & studs. (Photos)


Here's the process I have in my head, tell me where I'm wrong at (if anywhere).

Since this is an exterior wall and is undoubtedly load bearing we will need to jack up the top plate of the wall to hold the load.

Concern 1: This is an 18 foot continuous span wall. Is that an issue with the jacking process? How many feet per hydraulic jack?

Concern 2: We hoped to only lose half of the drywall in the room. I can't imagine a way of jacking up the wall without removing nearly all of the drywall - unless we removed only a section of drywall between two studs in the area to be lifted?

Once the top plate is on jacks, we would pull out the rotten bottom plate and install a new PT piece of lumber of the same dimensions.

With the new bottom plate in place, we would let the wall down from the jack. We would begin to cut the bottom 12-14 inches off the wall studs and replace the removed piece with a new section of stud. A section of stud would be sistered to the formerly rotten piece and adhered to the wall sheathing on the backside with construction adhesive.

Concern 3: How long should the sistered pieces be if the rotten areas are 12" in length? Any rule of thumb I should know about?

Once all the rotten wood is removed, replaced with a new section of wood, and sistered to a completely new stud, we would replace the drywall and proceed.

Let me know if there's anything inherently wrong with this process. You guys are great - I really miss having my old man around to bounce these questions off of. I talk to the wife about these things and just get funny looks.
JustADoc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2011, 11:51 PM   #4
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 70
Default

Rotten bottom plate & studs. (Photos)


Quote:
Originally Posted by havalife View Post
It may be mold and starting from the outside of the wall.
There's certainly some mold - which the other half is already putting a stomping on with bleach / water mix. The bottom plate is definitely rotten though - I can pull it apart with my hand in chunks. We're also going to replace as much of the insulation as we can so the mold won't continue to grow once the drywall is replaced.

The source of water infiltration was under the patio door. We're fixing that tomorrow and also addressing the larger drainage issues at the same time as this renovation.

I can't see any evidence that water is actually coming under the wall itself - it has just came under the door at least two times a year for many years and we've never been able to get a handle on stopping it. The root of the issue is inadequate drainage in our neighborhood - we're just trying to fix the damage done at the same time that we fix drainage on our property. The wood that is furthest from the door, in the back left corner of the room, is not rotten at all.
JustADoc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2011, 11:59 PM   #5
Too Old
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: South of North
Posts: 345
Default

Rotten bottom plate & studs. (Photos)


Ohhh s**t Keep the pics coming. 18' span? and you are worried about drywall. Mold is not good or easy to remove.
__________________
"Yeah, it's a nice garage, but you have to keep it heated at all times so it doesn't mess up your roof line."
havalife is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2011, 12:37 AM   #6
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 70
Default

Rotten bottom plate & studs. (Photos)


Quote:
Originally Posted by havalife View Post
Ohhh s**t Keep the pics coming. 18' span? and you are worried about drywall. Mold is not good or easy to remove.
Agreed, entirely, however we've dealt with it before so we have some idea what we're getting ourselves into in the cleaning agent department.

It's not quite as difficult as many are led to believe. I think a lot of companies blow it out of proportion for marketing purposes. Is it safe? No. Is it deadly? Not really. We are working with safety equipment, etc. This all part of buying an old house I figure.

Here's the cleaning methods that the EPA suggests for commercial buildings - they're more rigorous than a home and that's what we have been using as a guide. http://www.epa.gov/iedmold1/table2.html Notice that the methods aren't incredibly rigorous. Mainly throw out anything that appears moldy and vacuum filtrate everything you can. We use a 1:4 mix of bleach and water on any affected areas daily.

In the rooms we've restored so far we haven't seen any mold return. Doesn't mean it isn't there but so far so good. If we could get the damn humidity of our lot and geographical area to cooperate it would never be an issue!
JustADoc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2011, 01:59 AM   #7
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Fairbanks, AK
Posts: 1,845
Default

Rotten bottom plate & studs. (Photos)


"Is it deadly? Not really." Actually, my son almost died from inhaling mold spores in a closet at a rental unit. He had an anaphylactic reaction and his throat constricted, so he almost suffocated. About 1500 people die/yr from ana reacts in the US. As for your wall, I hope you are not going to DIY this. And, if you are going to remove insulation (and I think you should), throw that fiberglass in the land fill and replace it with mineral wool, wool, cotton, or cellulose. Also, do a good job of air sealing when you re-sheet rock. That may be contributing to the moisture problem, and is always a good idea regardless. Read about airtight drywall approach on buildingscience.com, if you are not familiar w/ it. Good luck, and I am sorry to see that horrendous problem you have.
jklingel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2011, 02:25 AM   #8
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 70
Default

Rotten bottom plate & studs. (Photos)


Quote:
Originally Posted by jklingel View Post
"Is it deadly? Not really." Actually, my son almost died from inhaling mold spores in a closet at a rental unit. He had an anaphylactic reaction and his throat constricted, so he almost suffocated. About 1500 people die/yr from ana reacts in the US. As for your wall, I hope you are not going to DIY this. And, if you are going to remove insulation (and I think you should), throw that fiberglass in the land fill and replace it with mineral wool, wool, cotton, or cellulose. Also, do a good job of air sealing when you re-sheet rock. That may be contributing to the moisture problem, and is always a good idea regardless. Read about airtight drywall approach on buildingscience.com, if you are not familiar w/ it. Good luck, and I am sorry to see that horrendous problem you have.
Sorry to hear about your son's troubles. I suppose in the grand scheme of things anything is deadly. Certainly your son's immune response to mold was an example of that. I don't have reason to believe anyone in our home is allergic to molds otherwise it would have already presented itself. We do wear N95 respirators when working in this room.

Most of the black you see is actually not mold - it's just rot. We do intend to replace the fiberglass insulation with something a little better. I have never read the Building Science information on air tight drywall but reaching back to undergraduate Physics I'm assuming the idea is to create a layer of air between the interior and exterior walls. Air, after all, being one of the greatest insulators.

It's probably largely achievable and we'll certainly try our best. The home is nearly 50 years old so it will be a challenge.

Thanks very much for your input!
JustADoc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2011, 06:46 AM   #9
BUILDER / REMODELING CONT
 
buletbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: LONG ISLAND N.Y
Posts: 1,543
Default

Rotten bottom plate & studs. (Photos)


could you post some pictures of the outside where the effected area is. the sliding door where the water comes in.
as for your idea of jacking is correct, what we do is build a temp wall out of 2x4's single on the floor and double on the ceiling then just install pre cut studs under every truss or ceiling joist. it doesn't appear that there is any hardwood flooring installed just subfloor maybe tile underlayment. if so cut the temp. studs 1" longer then what they need to be.
you could install this wall 2ft from the outside wall. it can be as long as you need it to be. but 16ft should be fine. this way you can work a longer span with out moving the jacks.. and as you start to sister up the studs use an extra one first then keep grabbing the on from the temp wall from where you just sistered. I like to use the whole stud for sistering and not short studs. For the simple reason, if I or the owner would like to put a second floor on the house in the future.
this is the way I would aproach this job if I came across it. hope it helps. Bob
buletbob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2011, 06:47 AM   #10
Civil Engineer
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Boston
Posts: 4,122
Default

Rotten bottom plate & studs. (Photos)


Those studs look pretty bad, can't really tell from the photo. If you are going to the trouble to jack up the wall, you may want to replace bad studs at the same time, rather than trying to treat them with strengthening chemicals.

As for jacking up the wall, I strongly recommend AGAINST use of hydraulic jacks to hold the wall up temporarily while you work. The jacks inevitably lose pressure, and they ARE NOT DESIGNED for long term support. You need to use a jacking system rated for long term support (not necessarily permanent support). There are several different kinds, including screw jacks, and jacks with steel pin locking mechanisms. There is also the option of jacking up the wall and installing temporary wood columns.

Temporary support is no joke, you can get killed if the house collapses on you. You can often rent support equipment from a good Rent All type store. If you are uncomfortable with methods and techniques, get help from someone who has done this before, and can help you through the process. You may have a couple of days of work under the temporary support, don't take chances.
Daniel Holzman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2011, 06:48 AM   #11
DIY staff
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Kane county,Illinois
Posts: 21,148
Default

Rotten bottom plate & studs. (Photos)


Just-a-doc-----Are the floor joists resting on that wall or running parallel to it?

That will have a lot to do with how to. jack the wall.

Also, the bottom plate should be replaced in sections--Perhaps 4 feet at a time.

The drywall ? It might be easier in the long run to remove it.(scabbing in short repair pieces on a bearing wall is not a great idea.)

Do a search here for 'jack wall'----That's usually the safest --and cheapest way to lift the wall and secure it.----Mike----
__________________
New members: Adding your location to your profile helps in many ways.--M--
oh'mike is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to oh'mike For This Useful Post:
AGWhitehouse (08-11-2011), JustADoc (08-02-2011)
Old 07-31-2011, 06:50 AM   #12
DIY staff
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Kane county,Illinois
Posts: 21,148
Default

Rotten bottom plate & studs. (Photos)


:thum bup:----Good morning everyone!

Three answers ---each 1 minute apart!
__________________
New members: Adding your location to your profile helps in many ways.--M--
oh'mike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2011, 07:19 AM   #13
Mod
 
kwikfishron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Kansas (NCK)
Posts: 7,160
Default

Rotten bottom plate & studs. (Photos)


I think terms like “horrendous problem” are a little overstated and actually lifting that part of the house (especially a full inch) may not be required. I do agree that pictures from the outside including one standing back showing what’s above and more information is needed before you proceed.
__________________
A Picture Is Worth A Thousand Words
Especially In The DIY Chatroom
kwikfishron is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to kwikfishron For This Useful Post:
JustADoc (08-02-2011), oh'mike (07-31-2011)
Old 07-31-2011, 08:00 AM   #14
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 9,519
Default

Rotten bottom plate & studs. (Photos)


If the stud bottoms are rotted, you need to sister another stud next to each bad stud. You can't just put a small piece on the bottom.
You add a piece and add a stud.
Remove all the sheetrock off the wall.
__________________
Ron
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
B. Franklin 1759
Ron6519 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Ron6519 For This Useful Post:
JustADoc (08-02-2011)
Old 07-31-2011, 01:00 PM   #15
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 70
Default

Rotten bottom plate & studs. (Photos)


First off, you guys were on the ball this morning. LOL

Quote:
Originally Posted by buletbob
this is the way I would aproach this job if I came across it. hope it helps. Bob
Outside photos coming soon. This is a two story home but the only thing above that wall is a single story roof and a small balcony off the master bedroom. This particular wall in the photos should not be supporting the weight of the second story - perhaps indirectly but I can't imagine the weight distribution spreading over an area including this wall. Additionally, the wall does run *parallel* to the roof trusses.

The water comes in under a regular swinging door. Look for my other thread on the Building & Construction page for a photo of that. The threshold just needs to be replaced - we're replacing the entire door and threshold today in fact.

Our contractor friend basically told us exactly what you did. He also agreed on using full sister studs instead of the shorter pieces. With the cost of drywall so low in our area right now I'm sure that's what we'll do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Holzman
Those studs look pretty bad, can't really tell from the [COLOR=blue !important][COLOR=blue !important]photo[/color][/color]. If you are going to the trouble to jack up the wall, you may want to replace bad studs at the same time, rather than trying to treat them with strengthening chemicals.
It's likely the photo. Beyond the bottom 1' of stud the rest of the wood appears and acts virgin. It's probably not completely as low as the moisture should be (don't have one of the meters yet) but it doesn't depress when struck with a hammer. We will be running the dehumidifiers in this room for awhile before we do anything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Holzman
As for jacking up the wall, I strongly recommend AGAINST use of hydraulic jacks to hold the wall up temporarily while you work. The jacks inevitably lose pressure, and they ARE NOT DESIGNED for long term support. You need to use a jacking system rated for long term support (not necessarily permanent support). There are several different kinds, including screw jacks, and jacks with steel pin locking mechanisms. There is also the option of jacking up the wall and installing temporary wood columns.
We're going to try and look for a mining style hydraulic jack(s) with the safety pins. It's likely that a local rental store probably has one (coal mining country). With that said, I'm not going to mess around and will undoubtedly build the temporary wall and implement a jack as well. Two layers of support is certainly better than one.

With doing one wall at a time I'm hoping that we can complete each wall in a day. I can't imagine any reason it would take longer than that if we're down to bare studs before we're under temporary support.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oh'mike
Are the floor [COLOR=blue !important][COLOR=blue ! important]joists[/color][/color] resting on that wall or running parallel to it?
There are no floor joists in this room. It's old vinyl stick on tile on top of a concrete slab.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron6519
If the stud bottoms are rotted, you need to sister another stud next to each bad stud. You can't just put a small piece on the bottom.
You add a piece and add a stud.
That's exactly what we're going to do! Thanks for the advice!

JustADoc is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Replacing/Reparing Rotten Studs? Elshupacabra Remodeling 3 06-05-2009 06:16 PM
Do I need to replace a rotten sill plate met Carpentry 8 07-11-2008 09:14 AM
basement renovation yummy mummy Remodeling 156 05-08-2007 10:15 AM
Help! I need to know how to start finishing my basement. brightred Carpentry 47 01-18-2007 01:30 PM
Studs to Sill Plate Tim Building & Construction 4 09-24-2006 02:23 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.