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Old 04-09-2010, 04:17 PM   #1
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Rim (Band) Joist Repair?? w/Pics


(Updated 050410 with progress pics of the Rim joist and deck, see below for pics)

Hi, I am new to the site but chose it after looking over many other ones and found this one seems to have so much more going on in it
I recently removed an old Cinder Block and Slab Porch due to falling apart from the front of my house (1951 1.5 Story Bungalow). I am replacing the porch with a wood on that I will attach to the house so it wont be a floting style.

Here is my question, before I can do so I noticed that the Rim or Band Joist (however it is called) on the house has water damage in the area where the old porch came off and only this area. The area of damage is just under 50 inches in length. If I go 70 inces there is a joint already so I think may do just that. NOW will I have to jack the house up to do so? what if I do it in 3 sections or something would that enable me to get away without jacking the house up. I am posting some pics below, the Joist is 5 7/8 inches tall and I believe 3/4 to 1 Inches thick. I do not see it sitting on top of a sill plate or anything but I am not well versed yet in this area. ALSO the cement Sill is relying on this Rim Joist because you can see in the pics(not bad for a camera phone eh?) that there is some wedges between the sill and the Rim Board. Okay I'll shut up now here are the pics. Thanks for any help btw.


Area of Damage is indicated between the arrows


















Last edited by Ruger141; 05-04-2010 at 09:39 PM.
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Old 04-09-2010, 04:57 PM   #2
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Rim (Band) Joist Repair?? w/Pics


A little terminology. Round where I live (where do you live by the way?) we call the wood piece the sill. A band joist is a wooden board that is attached to the ends of the joists, I strongly doubt the sill you are planning to replace is actually attached to the floor joists.

Now, it looks to me like you have carpenter ant or termite damage, perhaps one of the insect experts on here would care to comment. As for replacing the sill, because there are shims between the sill and the concrete door threshold, you can probably bang out the shims, cut out the rotten piece of sill, and replace it with pressure treated lumber without jacking up the house. Jacking up the house is major trouble unless you are pretty advanced, I wouldn't touch it unless ABSOLUTELY necessary, and it doesn't seem necessary here.

You do need to anchor the sill plate down, typically this is done with anchor bolts every 8 inches or so, don't know how your house is done. To do that would require removing the concrete above the sill so you can bolt through the new sill into the block below. If this is impossible, you may be able to attach metal straps to the sill and the block, I have not seen this done, but it may be possible.

If you need to go beyond the area indicated by the arrows, you will need to remove some siding to gain access so you can cut out the sill, replace with pressure treated, and bolt down.

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Old 04-09-2010, 05:05 PM   #3
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Rim (Band) Joist Repair?? w/Pics


Thanks Dan, I am in south eastern Michigan. I couldnt find what the proper name was for the Sill/ Rim Joist but after some searching around thats what I thought it was. As far as not attaching to the floor joists I think you are right because I would think it would be a heftier board than what appears to only be about an inch thick. I cannot tell the thickness for sure but was able to snake my tape measure in one spot and am decently confidet I got it hooked on the back to measure.
Anyways I am hoping to tackle this project starting tomorrow since I have this weekend off. I thought of removing the bottom row of Aluminum siding to check out the rest of the sill board but I think its fine since the damaged area it only where I pointed out and on either side of it there is solid wood, not to mention that this is also where the old porch used to be so it seems logical that if there were going to be any damage it would be there.
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Old 04-09-2010, 05:08 PM   #4
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good to check you may have more ant damage than is showing. the reason your board is 1" ants ate it
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Old 04-09-2010, 05:09 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tpolk View Post
good to check you may have more ant damage than is showing. the reason your board is 1" ants ate it
Hmmm the spot I was able to measure was a undamaged spot though.
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Old 04-10-2010, 01:34 AM   #6
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Rim (Band) Joist Repair?? w/Pics


I am not a bug guy, but you have ant or 'mites big time. The tunnels are not from anything like water. As mentioned, this could be the tip of the iceberg, too. Cellulose and dampness = bug food. Do you see any big, black ants around? Do you ever hear something "scratching" in your walls? Synthetic pyrethroids will take care of the ants; don't know about 'mites. Call a pro bug killer, IMO.
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Old 04-10-2010, 10:08 AM   #7
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No dont ever hear anything in the walls and I sit in the room a few feet from the wall all the time. Like I said the area that was damaged is right where the old porch attached and there is good board on either side of the section of damage within that old porches recess. I am going to pull the bottom row of siding up anyways today and look all along. Is there any tips to make the siding come up easier?
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Old 04-10-2010, 10:17 AM   #8
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I gather that a 5 dollar tool from Home Depot etc is needed and then loosen the top row just above the one I want removed, then remove the nails from the row I want off. I will check back in later with more info.
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Old 04-10-2010, 02:26 PM   #9
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What I see looks to be termite damage. Before I started to rip off the exterior I would go to the basement and inspect the framing from below to get the whole picture. The exterior view is limited in scope and won"t give you the big picture about preparing for the repair.
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Old 04-10-2010, 02:53 PM   #10
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Thanks Ron, its a little late now I have cut out that section of bad wood and removed the lower row of siding and the rest looks fine. Actually I used a Hole Saw to cut through right at the damaged spot and very shortly in the wood was very solid. Canuck3003 answered my quetion in the pest section when I posted some pics there about the bugs I found left behind and they are Sow Bugs. I am not sure if they are capable of that extensive amount of damage though.






Dont worry I straightened the cut up since the pic. Now that I can see inside, I see that there is another 2x8 on the inside edge of the basement block and then the outer one I am replacing which is on the outer edge of the basement block. This outer Rim Joist does not appear to be fastened to the basement block at all so since I am going to be tying a porch into it

I am gonna fasten some short pieces of 2x8 perpendicular to the inner and outer Rim Joists every so often for good support. But I will just ask the guys at Home depot when I go if there is a better way to go about it. I am only replacing 67 inches of damaged board.
I cannot do a free standing porch because I knocked the old one down into the hole that existed under the porch so now there is a huge pile pf rumble there. Besides if I were to remove all the rubble how would I secure some poles in the big open hole then?




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Old 05-04-2010, 09:34 PM   #11
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So it is now some time later and I have repaired the Rim Joist and started on the porch. I just finished installing the decking today. Below are some pics to catch up on my progress (my first deck btw).
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Old 05-04-2010, 09:36 PM   #12
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Old 05-04-2010, 09:47 PM   #13
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Now I have two questions from here on out.

1. What would look good as skirting around the deck (there will be a garden surrounding it that will be mounded up about 5 or 6 inches)

2. For the railing I bought 2x2 spindles cut at 45's at each end that will extend from the end joists of the porch up to a verticle 2x4 capped with a horizontal 2x4. The posts for the railing are 4x4's and extend above the top rail some and will have a cap on them which is still to be determined. Well that is what was planned so far at least. Any ideas to dress the railings up some using most of what I already have planned? I thought cutting the top rail (horizontal 2x4) with my circular saw set at a 45 so that there was mabe a 1 or 2 inch horizontal section in the center of the rail with angled edges going down on 45 degrees.
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Old 05-04-2010, 10:09 PM   #14
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My last front deck I put cement block up against (under the edge of) the deck
Then further out I built a raised planter around the deck & filled with dirt
Keeps animals out & looked nice
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Old 05-05-2010, 11:11 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruger141 View Post
Now I have two questions from here on out.

1. What would look good as skirting around the deck (there will be a garden surrounding it that will be mounded up about 5 or 6 inches)

2. For the railing I bought 2x2 spindles cut at 45's at each end that will extend from the end joists of the porch up to a verticle 2x4 capped with a horizontal 2x4. The posts for the railing are 4x4's and extend above the top rail some and will have a cap on them which is still to be determined. Well that is what was planned so far at least. Any ideas to dress the railings up some using most of what I already have planned? I thought cutting the top rail (horizontal 2x4) with my circular saw set at a 45 so that there was mabe a 1 or 2 inch horizontal section in the center of the rail with angled edges going down on 45 degrees.
You may not need any skirting if you have something built up around the outside.

If you are going to raise the ground level, as you say by a few inches, I wonder if some landscape ties might not look pretty good for the job. They would go well with the deck (good job by the way) you have done.

If I could make a comment about your 2 x 2's cut at 45 at both ends...I have done perhaps hundreds of decks in the past, and we used to commonly use the double ended 45 spindles nailed to a single 2 x 6 for stair railings.

If we were using them for the deck railings, we would cut one end square, for the top end, and then attach the double 2 x 4's as you have planned. (Sometimes we would use a 2 x 6 for the top rail.) That way, the tops of the spindles add just a little stiffness to the top 2 x 4 on the flat. I don't think I would mess with it, just leave it as is. I think it will look just fine.

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