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Old 10-14-2010, 10:07 PM   #16
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rigid foam insulation on interior


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QUESTION: Did you also see cellulose filled cavities around similarly leaking windows? Were they in better or worse condition, or seem to be more or less likely to become problems?
Steve: Ask that on the greenbuildadvisor.com site, Q&A section. Robert Riversong has been installing dense-pack for decades, and I bet he has some info for you. So may others. j

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Old 10-14-2010, 10:41 PM   #17
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rigid foam insulation on interior


The national average for improperly installed windows is about 65%. Many of the people in the 2 day installation class ($800) were on the clock during the classes. Many were window installing sub-contractors the do work for G.C.s and builders instead of their own carpenters. - The certification is a value they can easily justify on new construction. Most of the problems were on 5 to 10 year old homes. The percentage of 65% may include a lot of the replacement jobs where one hole in the wall was replaced with another and the rest of the structure was not bothered with. The cellulose did not seem to hold on to the moisture as well, but I was not paid to use my meters and take reading.

Most of the insulation I saw on homws was fiberglass because it is the cheapest thing a person can buy. I did not keep track of the individual percentages, but when you see the second rebuild after flood or water damage, you get to see what is really susceptible.

Personally, I would use cellulose over fiberglass because of the functional insulation over time, the superior fire resistance and slightly higher weight (minimal), but in an attic, it blows in much better. Batts are good for retailers because they can be compressed somewhat for shipping, the manufacturers do a lot of advertising and they are easy to put in a car or a pick-up.

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Old 10-15-2010, 12:24 AM   #18
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"1. Is it OK to use rigid foam on the inside?------ I would, but not under drywall, if you insist on using f.g.

2. If so, should I use a 6-mil vapor barrier or would this allow water to collect between it and the panel?------ No, none required for your location.

3. Is the panel "hard" enough for drywall, or would the finished wall feel "mushy"?"------ The problem will be trying to screw the drywall tight enough with the foam thickness. It will always have some give and movement with nail pops, bad idea. Use strapping with a thermal break like sill sealer between strapping and stud. Ideally 2" of foam cut between the studs installed tight to the outside with a thermal break, without the inside foam. Your cavity will be warmed and never reach the dew point to condense inside on the framing. Cellulose will absorb water and release it, but very slowly. No v.b. required, according to manufacturer. Fiberglass will mold after getting wet and leak the dyes used for coloring on wall coverings. With your open T&G sheathing, a lot of outside air (and water) will permeate the wall cavity and insulation. If f.g., you can lose 50% of the stated R-value (unless sealed on 6 sides, perfectly installed, absolutely no air movement, and a high enough density to prevent convective loops inherent with batt wall insulation). Dense-pack cellulose slows/stops the air movements of convective loops, won't leach color, has been treated to be much safer in a fire. It will also mold.
http://bct.nrc.umass.edu/index.php/p...-smart-choice/

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...6/ai_n8582994/

http://www.applegateinsulation.com/C...id=249418&fd=0

http://www.inspectapedia.com/sickhou...rglassMold.htm

http://www.buildingscience.com/docum...archterm=insul

http://www.buildingscience.com/docum...ecommendations

I would also use the air-tight drywall approach mentioned already, with permeable latex paint. http://www.buildingscience.com/docum...wall-approach/

Gary
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Old 10-15-2010, 06:48 AM   #19
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As always, a lot of great info Gary. Followup.... you mentioned fg will mold if it gets wet. Now I'm confused. I thought fg fibers themselves did not support mold. Or were you talking about the paper backing?
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Old 10-15-2010, 05:16 PM   #20
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rigid foam insulation on interior


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Steve: Ask that on the greenbuildadvisor.com site, Q&A section. Robert Riversong has been installing dense-pack for decades, and I bet he has some info for you. So may others. j

Very true, J, he did!
http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/...l-will-cellulo
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Old 10-16-2010, 09:16 PM   #21
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Post #18, third one down..... Lead a horse to water...... lol

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Old 10-16-2010, 09:33 PM   #22
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mea culpa. (insert sound of whinny)

There's just SO MUCH to read sometime I get lazy and ask.

So they vaccummed up some mold in old dirty fiberglass. It's the organic dirt that's supporting the mold growth, not the inorganic fibers. But that's just a technical quibble. In the real world, dirty fiberglass could certainly be an ugly mold habitat.
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Old 10-17-2010, 03:33 AM   #23
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I just looked up "mea culpa"; my Mom says that, too. Coming from her, I thought it would translate a little more "snappy". Dang. I need new phrases.... j
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Old 10-17-2010, 05:35 PM   #24
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"In the real world, dirty fiberglass could certainly be an ugly mold habitat." ------ I have never found fiberglass insulation without dirt from moving air -- anywhere...... but that is only in attics, walls, and under-floor. And after 10 years (or less) the batts compress from 6" to 3", underfloor and attics, but walls take longer for gravity to effect because of the flanges. I did not install it, nor would I recommend fiberglass to anyone after my research. (I hate being duped....)

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Old 10-17-2010, 08:22 PM   #25
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like I said, it was a technical quibble with little import in practice.

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