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Old 06-02-2011, 02:11 PM   #1
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Resting/Attaching Deck Roof Posts on Deck Beam...


Alright, a continuation of options in my ongoing dilemma. ASSUMING my 6x6 deck posts are at 48" (below frost line depth for my area), with proper 2b base, and poured footers ended above grade with Simpson connectors, can I place a separate 6x6 post ON TOP of the beam in line of the deck support post using Simpson connectors and blocking into the deck joists? Diagram below:


Last edited by mgh-pa; 06-06-2011 at 09:00 AM. Reason: New title...
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Old 06-03-2011, 10:39 AM   #2
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Old 06-03-2011, 12:30 PM   #3
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That’s not how I’d do it.

Starting multiple threads on the same project helps nobody.

Extending the gable roof of your house to cover the deck is more than just a “side note”.

Building it may be easy but you really need a local pro to design this for you.
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Old 06-03-2011, 03:28 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by kwikfishron View Post
That’s not how I’d do it.

Starting multiple threads on the same project helps nobody.

Extending the gable roof of your house to cover the deck is more than just a “side note”.

Building it may be easy but you really need a local pro to design this for you.
I know you mean well, and truly are trying to help, and posting multiple threads was stupid of me, I know, but no one was responding within my other threads when I would post separate questions. I was 99% sure the above method wouldn't work, BUT after thorough searching on the net, and even reading some posts from this very site, I was getting contradicting information about resting posts on load bearing beams.

This is a DIY site, so I'm sorry if I'm looking for a second opinion of "hiring a pro." A "contractor" is the person responsible for all of the crap I'm trying to fix.

I didn't need a pro to gut, re-drywall, build this stone gas fireplace, and re-trim everything:





I didn't need a contractor to cut a hole in my kitchen floor and build a stairway access to my basement:







And I didn't need a pro to help me excavate tons of dirt, install french drains, and new main drains, pour 12yds of colored concrete, and install 8 pallets of versa-lok retaining wall blocks:



Sorry if this post comes off touchy, but I don't trust others to do work around my home. I ask, research, and research some more. That's what I thought the point of this site was for.

Last edited by mgh-pa; 06-03-2011 at 04:06 PM.
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Old 06-03-2011, 06:01 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgh-pa View Post
I know you mean well, and truly are trying to help, and posting multiple threads was stupid of me, I know, but no one was responding within my other threads when I would post separate questions. I was 99% sure the above method wouldn't work, BUT after thorough searching on the net, and even reading some posts from this very site, I was getting contradicting information about resting posts on load bearing beams.

This is a DIY site, so I'm sorry if I'm looking for a second opinion of "hiring a pro." A "contractor" is the person responsible for all of the crap I'm trying to fix.

I didn't need a pro to gut, re-drywall, build this stone gas fireplace, and re-trim everything:





I didn't need a contractor to cut a hole in my kitchen floor and build a stairway access to my basement:







And I didn't need a pro to help me excavate tons of dirt, install french drains, and new main drains, pour 12yds of colored concrete, and install 8 pallets of versa-lok retaining wall blocks:



Sorry if this post comes off touchy, but I don't trust others to do work around my home. I ask, research, and research some more. That's what I thought the point of this site was for.
How come you haven't called your building inspector and ask him/her?
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Old 06-03-2011, 06:37 PM   #6
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Apparently, you need help getting a good connection to properly transmit the vertical and horizontal loads on the roof to the rest of the structure below bwcause no information was supplied about the roof or othe connections (if any) to the home.

This is the key to the problem, but information is needed for relies and assistance. Nobody will bother without a good picture of the situation since it is probably not isolated from everything else. Details are for nit-pickers, but sooner or later you need more information to get a ral answer.

The retaining wall of the older style Versalok is nice, but it is a canned construction from the Versalok site and does not require any structural concerns. Why didn'y you cap the wall with the available caps or are you going to add on?

I appreciate that you do not trust anyone else to do work on your home, but when it comes to structural and safety, the answers will only be as good and the information provided. Little information will give nothing more than guesses and someone knowledghable would not bother without a better description.

Dick
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Old 06-03-2011, 07:18 PM   #7
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Can you place a second 6x6 above the lower 6x6 post, resting on the beam? Of course you can. Will it be safe and meet code? Totally different question. If you are operating in a location where there are no codes, then all you need to do is meet your own personal standard of safety. On the other hand, if there are local codes and you need to meet them, this is a difficult problem, but not impossible.

Essentially you are building a post and beam structure. To determine if the plan is safe, you need to compute all the loads on the posts and beams, both vertical, horizontal and torsional, and determine that the structural elements and connections are within acceptable factors of safety. You are not likely to find the answer in a code book, unless your code book covers post and beam construction - my local code does not.

If you have enough structural background, you can compute all the loads, and determine all the factors of safety. There is nothing intrinsically unworkable about your idea, however the calculations do require more than looking up results in a span table. Pay particular attention to rotation at the connection point, and if you are in an earthquake zone, make sure the connections are flexible enough yet strong enough to resist the design earthquake.
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Old 06-03-2011, 07:26 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by concretemasonry View Post
Apparently, you need help getting a good connection to properly transmit the vertical and horizontal loads on the roof to the rest of the structure below bwcause no information was supplied about the roof or othe connections (if any) to the home.

This is the key to the problem, but information is needed for relies and assistance. Nobody will bother without a good picture of the situation since it is probably not isolated from everything else. Details are for nit-pickers, but sooner or later you need more information to get a ral answer.

The retaining wall of the older style Versalok is nice, but it is a canned construction from the Versalok site and does not require any structural concerns. Why didn'y you cap the wall with the available caps or are you going to add on?

I appreciate that you do not trust anyone else to do work on your home, but when it comes to structural and safety, the answers will only be as good and the information provided. Little information will give nothing more than guesses and someone knowledghable would not bother without a better description.

Dick
The wall photo was mid construction. I've since added caps.

The roof will be supported by two 6x6s out front, with scissor trusses resting on the beams running back to the house. I will have the beams themselves resting on the top plate of the exterior wall of the house. The roof is a 4/12 roof, and I plan to obviously continue that pitch on out 14' from the house (it's a 22' span).

The source of the question of the post was to try to avoid having to set two extra 6x6s in front of the deck support 6x6s, but that's what I suppose I'll do. I'm going to have the deck cantilever 1' past the beam, so I will just run the 6x6s off separate footings on up through the cantilevered section. This will mean that below the deck structure, I will have two pairs of 6x6s 1' apart, and cosmetically, I don't like it, but it seems to be the only option.
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Old 06-03-2011, 08:41 PM   #9
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You certainly like big wood structural members, but have to make sure the addition works for both vertical AND lateral loads PLUS structural continuity. Do you have anything for creating lateral support for your addition since it will see wind and lateral loads with a greater exposure?

Can you home roofing structure stand the additional vertical and lateral lods from the deck roof? All posts and beams is not good after you get up a foot or two.

This sounds like a job that can be done, but the bankers, code people, future owners (and their inspectors that know when to ask for permit proof) when it comes to selling.

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Old 06-03-2011, 09:54 PM   #10
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Just curious, are permits required in your local? I think there are other solutions rather than adding more posts to the front of existing posts.

Andy.
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Old 06-04-2011, 12:00 AM   #11
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I read all your previous posts and answers. You really need more help than we can supply on an internet chatroom. There are serious structural issues that require a permit for safety and liability. Many were mentioned.

When a picture is posted I tend to nit-pick (to be expected for posting it) things like: no graspable handrail at inside or exterior stairs; no insulation on interior cmu's at stair landing; the gas f.p. exhaust vent with-in 3' of the operable windows; stair-well guardrail spindles spaced more than 4" max. to newel post; lower guardrail missing. Very helpful for other DIY’ers doing similar projects. Many of these you can add, if you haven’t already--- to keep your family safe.

Gary
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Old 06-06-2011, 08:48 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by GBR in WA View Post
I read all your previous posts and answers. You really need more help than we can supply on an internet chatroom. There are serious structural issues that require a permit for safety and liability. Many were mentioned.

When a picture is posted I tend to nit-pick (to be expected for posting it) things like: no graspable handrail at inside or exterior stairs; no insulation on interior cmu's at stair landing; the gas f.p. exhaust vent with-in 3' of the operable windows; stair-well guardrail spindles spaced more than 4" max. to newel post; lower guardrail missing. Very helpful for other DIY’ers doing similar projects. Many of these you can add, if you haven’t already--- to keep your family safe.

Gary
Definitely fair assessments. The spindles are in fact within the 4" limit on the stair hand rail (3 7/8" to be exact), the hand rails on the interior/exterior of the basement stairs hadn't been installed when those pictures were taken, not sure what you mean about the insulation at the bottom of the stairs (can you fill me in on this, I hadn't heard of that before, and it would be great to know for the future). The gas vent goes up through the existing chimney and out above the the grade to the exterior of the house above window elevation (all clearances exceed the minimum recommendations from the manufacturer). This project was actually cleared by the local LP/FP dealer/installer), but you may know something he didn't, so again, that would be helpful.

Just another foot note as to why I don't like contractor's (in our area at least) as a general rule). I began the demo on the deck this weekend, and look what the contractor did to the joists in the indicated area to fit over a scabbed together shed roof below the deck:



Yeah, that's a 2x8 that's tapered back to 2", and resting (not attached mind you) on a 2x2 nailer that's attached to the ledger.

Anyways, another question for you guys. I was reading in the Design For Code Acceptance booklet about joists spanning on both sides of a beam changing the effective beam span. I've attached a diagram below of my intended plan coming out from the house (side view):



I was planning on a 6' joist span between two beams running out from the house, with a total joist length of 14' (1' of cantilever, 6' between beams, and the remainder (7' minus the width of each 6x6 post) running back to the house. Now, using the chart in the same manual, I was assuming I could get away with 3 2x12s for my beam given the joist span between beams as indicated in the diagram, but now what I'm reading further down in the manual, is that you effectively DOUBLE the joist span with you have joist overhang on BOTH sides of the beam when sizing for your beam? That would mean even 3 2x12's would be undersized in this situation, correct?

For reference, here's the excerpt from the codes book I was mentioning:



Also, as for the codes/inspector question, I will be contacting them about the roof issue (better to play on the safe side, and I do appreciate the advice given so far, as I am grateful).

Last edited by mgh-pa; 06-06-2011 at 08:53 AM.
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Old 06-06-2011, 10:16 PM   #13
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Good to hear that the stairs do have handrails. I may have jumped the gun on the insulation on the concrete block wall showing opposite the bottom of the stairs if you have R-10 exterior foundation wall continuous insulation. Or live in climate Zone 1 or 2: http://publicecodes.citation.com/ico...001_par001.htm

http://publicecodes.citation.com/ico..._11_sec002.htm

I was looking at the distance between the turned newel post and the 1st spindle, about 4” down from bottom of attaching rail…….where a toddler could get their head stuck. $” measured across anywhere-up or down the turned post.

Good on the gas vent.

Which Code are you under? Here is the 2009, pp.5-7 on joists and beams, note opposing hung joists not; http://www.awc.org/Publications/DCA/DCA6/DCA6-09.pdf

Gary

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