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-   -   Replacing Rim Board behind old Deck Ledger (http://www.diychatroom.com/f19/replacing-rim-board-behind-old-deck-ledger-160890/)

osubuckeye88 10-22-2012 11:48 PM

Replacing Rim Board behind old Deck Ledger
 
I have read many posts about similar questions, but none have the same conditions I have here.

My main question is: Can I pull out the sections of this old rim board to replace them with new treated 2x10 rim board without jacking?

I have posted details and many photos on my renovation blog here:
http://southwestbuckeye.wordpress.co...ter-rim-joist/

And I copy and paste it all here (if photos will paste):

Here is the rear of the house; raised wood deck removed. 66 posts will remain. Posts are approx 10 ft from house and just under 10 ft apart. Rear wall of house is 50 ft wide. Deck was approx 48 ft by 10 ft. Ledger board is still attached in these first photos. House joists are 210′s (16" o.c.) running perpendicular to the rear wall and to this rim board. As you see, sliding patio doors take up most of this wall above:
http://southwestbuckeye.files.wordpr...pg?w=600&h=450 http://southwestbuckeye.files.wordpr...pg?w=600&h=450
Ledger board removed. Suspected old cantilever 2x8s were sistered to each joist for unknown reason (possibly an old balcony). They were just roughly cut off behind ledger. Old ledger board was actually nailed through red wood siding. Rim board was notched for each of these cantilevers. I will remove these cantilevers to allow for a more solid rim board.
http://southwestbuckeye.files.wordpr...pg?w=600&h=450
I removed insect-damaged section of rim board and top two sill plates (there are three sill plates!) because they nearly destroyed. I replaced the two 2x4 treated sill plates between these two joists. I then placed a 210 blocking at this point because the subfloor was sagging a bit between these two joists ( because it had been wet).
http://southwestbuckeye.files.wordpr...pg?w=600&h=450 http://southwestbuckeye.files.wordpr...pg?w=600&h=450
Joists are bearing on 2 inches of sill plates, with the rim board occupying the remaining 1-1/2″ of the sill plates.
http://southwestbuckeye.files.wordpr...pg?w=600&h=450 http://southwestbuckeye.files.wordpr...pg?w=600&h=450
Existing rim board is in many parts/sections, some just 16″ long. And it is notched for each cantilevered 28. In many places, this rim board is easily removed (i.e. loose).
http://southwestbuckeye.files.wordpr...pg?w=600&h=450
My questions are:
1.) Can I safely remove these sections of rim board to replace them with treated 2x10s without jacking up the upper wall?
Since most of the function of the rim board is for lateral movement and support of joists, is there a significant vertical load from the wall above to affect my replacement of this rim board?

2.) If there is a significant vertical load, will replacing smaller sections, one at time, be a better method? Or should I try to replace as large a section as possible at once?

3.) Existing rim board is nailed only intermittently to SOME joists. When I attach my new ledger board to the new rim board, will most of the forces on the rim board will be vertical? So simply nailing rim board to joists every 16 ” o.c. will be sufficient to secure rim board for ledger board to be attached to it (using many lag screws) ?

I already have the deck structure figured. I will use 2x10s 16″ o.c. (overkill) to span the 10 ft from the rear house ledger and (2)-2x10s between each post. I will rest the doubled beams atop posts with splices centered on posts.
Thank you very much for your time !!

Old deck structure:
Yes, I know : the old deck structure was shockingly unsafe ! That's why I tore it all down.

http://southwestbuckeye.files.wordpr...pg?w=600&h=450

osubuckeye88 10-22-2012 11:54 PM

old deck structure....
 
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joecaption 10-23-2012 12:07 AM

That's some of the strangest framing I've ever seen.
Is that termite damage as well as all the water damage?
You do know of the at least three differant reasons why it rotted out, right?

I'm not even sure you could get them out without lifting. There's going to be nails through the subflooring that need to be cut off that go into what your calling a rim joist. It's really just blocking not a rim joist.

You do know all those sliders will need to out to fix the subflooring damage, be flashed under them the way it should have been done in the first place and all that siding removed and redone under the door because it was all done wrong.

osubuckeye88 10-23-2012 12:11 AM

Yes, its termite damage as well as water damage. These are the reasons I have torn out the old deck and will rebuild it.
The old rim board sections come out easily. They are barely even nailed in and are not tight in the places I have experimented.

The subfloor nails do not go into this rim board. I know it looks like blocking but it really is a rim board, of sorts; meaning it is nailed to the ends of the floor joists and set flush with outside edge of sill plates. Dont let the cantilevered 2x8's fool you. They are apparently from an old vacated balcony, and not the structure of the house or the old deck I removed.

I wont be repairing the water damaged subfloor. I actually already finished all the interior work and refinished the hardwoods behind the slider doors. The floors are solid. Its just at that small area where the water sagged the subfloor .
And I will be replacing all the sliding patio doors after I re build the deck.

osubuckeye88 10-24-2012 11:33 PM

Nothing? No one?

Pittsville 10-25-2012 01:56 AM

Deleted.

Rocket98 10-25-2012 12:05 PM

It looks like your floor joists are bearing on the outside wall. Why don't you remove the blocking between the joists and place the joists for your deck against the floor joists. That way you can get rid of the ledger and bear the deck on your exterior wall.

Pittsville 10-25-2012 12:26 PM

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AndyGump 10-26-2012 12:05 AM

That is not blocking as he said before.

From the pictures it looks like you can just take out the rim joist and install a new one no worries.

Nail it to the ends of the floor joists and continue no with the deck build.

It does seem like you should have a good plan for keeping this happening in the future though.

Metal flashing is your friend.

I also think you should have a good set of plans made for yo on this deck that will be to code, but I do that for a living so I am highly biased in that regard.

Andy.

Andy.

osubuckeye88 10-26-2012 07:22 PM

Thank you, Andy. You are the only one who seems to see that those are not blocking, but a notched rim joist. Or perhaps, the only one to read what I typed :)
I have replaced the farthest right portion, in two parts ; 4ft and 5ft parts. It is odd that my treated 2x10x10's are still a bit wet, but measure at 9.5" H even a few days in the warm sun. Of course the old rim joist is 9.25" H. The Menards Building Materials manager says that this dimension varies by mill, which is news to me. I have always known dimensional lumber to be of standard actual sizes :-/
(5-1/4, 7-1/4, 9-1/4 etc)

3-4 galvanized 16d nails are fine at each joist? (plus toe nailing and I will also nail from above when I install the new patio doors)

Yes, I plan on flashing properly as I tend to overkill anything I build; on rim and over ledger board as well. I am also planning to use CopperCoat, even on new treated rim and ledger and completely insulating behind and sealing around the area. Once I get the rim joist replaced, I will be much more in my comfort zone. I just have no experience in rim joists. Thanks again and any additional advice is appreciated !

AndyGump 10-26-2012 07:28 PM

Hot-dipped galvanized, not the plated nails that are sometimes sold as being good.
As you are going into pressure treated wood.

Andy.

osubuckeye88 10-26-2012 07:34 PM

Yep, sorry . Thats what I got. Spiral hot dipped 3-1/2"


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