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-   -   Replace 2x4 with 2x6 walls (http://www.diychatroom.com/f19/replace-2x4-2x6-walls-102187/)

jackpine 04-20-2011 10:49 AM

Replace 2x4 with 2x6 walls
 
I am tearing out a 30 foot long wall in my house, putting in a double sliding door and two windows. The original wall has two large windows and a door, built with 2x4 studs. Everything is going to go, siding, interior paneling and all the doors and glass. My plan was to rip some strips of 2xs and add them to the 2x4 studs to bring them to 2x6 dimensions. Others tell me to just tear the wall down and re-frame with 2x6 from the get go. What do the experts here suggest? I have windows, patio door (and extension jams) purchased and waiting for warmer weather. Anderson 400 series.

Gary in WA 04-20-2011 11:45 AM

Keep in mind with a complete tear-out, the rafters/ceiling joists need the proper nailing (which may require roof section removal, if unable using palm nailer) to the top plate.(If one-story). Along with positive ties with metal H-1's, if required. You would need to add anchor bolts in the concrete (if so) to bring the wall up to today's Code. Pull the wiring involved and install again.
Will you be insulating outside of siding to meet/exceed today's minimum Code, or just adding cavity insulation? You could do both to make up for the large window heat loss. Or just furr the existing, adding 1/2" foam on the inside, at the drywall for a thermal break. Either way, be sure to use the ADA with drywall; http://www.buildingscience.com/docum...wall-approach/ Foam board outside is the best approach to keep your sheathing (especially OSB) from reaching the dew point on the inside; http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/...foam-sheathing

http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/...ally-necessary

If on the sunny side of the house, use a rain-screen approach; http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/...moisture-walls

What will you be using for a vapor retarder/barrier?

Gary

jackpine 04-20-2011 04:31 PM

I am leaning towards tearing the old out and replacing with new studs and top, bottom plates. So, new insulation, vapor barrier, sheathing, (osb) siding, and on the inside, poly and sheetrock. It just seems to be the easiest way. I will have to build a temporary wall for support as I tear it out. I am spending a ton on sliding patio doors and windows, why skimp on the construction. Still open for knowledge and advise as I do this.

Avadon 04-20-2011 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackpine (Post 633371)
I am leaning towards tearing the old out and replacing with new studs and top, bottom plates. So, new insulation, vapor barrier, sheathing, (osb) siding, and on the inside, poly and sheetrock. It just seems to be the easiest way. I will have to build a temporary wall for support as I tear it out. I am spending a ton on sliding patio doors and windows, why skimp on the construction. Still open for knowledge and advise as I do this.

I'm thinking it's six one way and 1/2 dozen the other. Is there any reason I wonder why the 6" would be stronger than the 2x4 with strip screwed into it? I'm guessing probably not. It sure will be amazingly easier to add to the wall than to take all that out if there is a lot of electrical, plumbing, etc. etc. But to rip it out is probably the A+ way to do it. I guess to me it would depend on whether or not your staying in that house for a long time or if your just sprucing up to sell down the road.

I've never heard of anyone saying that adding strips to existing lumber is not to code, but if anyone knows i'd like to hear it. I guess you are adding the weight of a 2x6 wall to what is a 2x4 constructed wall which may mean extra support.

Wildie 04-21-2011 09:11 PM

I'm no expert, but there's no way in hell that I would be removing a whole wall. Especially an outside wall. Invariably, outsie walls are carrying a structural load.
If you wish to make the wall thicker to add insulation it can be furred out using 2X2's.
However, if you want more insulation an easier way would be to add sheets of expanded foam insulation on the outside of the 2X4 framing and use batt insulation between the studs.
2X6 studs are used as an economical way of making walls thicker, so that more insulation can be added, in new construction. Just to rip out a whole wall to add 2X6 studs makes no economic sense. :no:

jackpine 04-23-2011 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wildie (Post 634135)
I'm no expert, but there's no way in hell that I would be removing a whole wall. Especially an outside wall. Invariably, outsie walls are carrying a structural load.
If you wish to make the wall thicker to add insulation it can be furred out using 2X2's.
However, if you want more insulation an easier way would be to add sheets of expanded foam insulation on the outside of the 2X4 framing and use batt insulation between the studs.
2X6 studs are used as an economical way of making walls thicker, so that more insulation can be added, in new construction. Just to rip out a whole wall to add 2X6 studs makes no economic sense. :no:

I can see your point, but my thoughts are if I am replacing windows and doors along the entire wall, and the new windows and doors are not even close to being the same size or in the same locations, I am basically having to rebuild the wall anyway. So why not beef it up, better insulate it and make it new. The cost of the new insulation and studs is minimal compared to the 5 grand in windows I am sticking in. This wall overlooks a lake.

Avadon 04-23-2011 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackpine (Post 634818)
I can see your point, but my thoughts are if I am replacing windows and doors along the entire wall, and the new windows and doors are not even close to being the same size or in the same locations, I am basically having to rebuild the wall anyway. So why not beef it up, better insulate it and make it new. The cost of the new insulation and studs is minimal compared to the 5 grand in windows I am sticking in. This wall overlooks a lake.


I've thought about your dilemma over the last few days as surely there is time to add furring strips and surely there is a time when you simply must replace the whole wall. As you said, if it wasn't for all the windows and doors your installing in that wall I would say your best option is just adding the strips. But your putting in so much into that wall that I think you would be crazy modding a 2x4 wall to accept all that expense. After all, taking down the 2x4 is mostly just labor and time and not a huge expense. If you don't do it right and build it with 2x6 I have a bad feeling you'll regret it everytime you look out those windows and put your hand against the wall.

I'm in the same boat except on one wall I have no choice but to add furing strips to bring 2x3's to 2x4's or tear out a whole wall where I just finished all the drywall and texture on that side beautifully. And it's painted and all the trim is done. So furring strips are the order of the day. The other three walls in that closet i'll take down piece by piece and reframe with 2x4. So I do think there is a time and place for each tactic.

well that's my 2cents. :thumbsup:

ps.. not to mention that there is many a slip between a cup and a lip when doing those furring strips. You literally have to rip each one on a case by case basis and check to make sure each strip is going on level and plumb. If your not careful the drywall could look really wierd if those strips aren't excellently installed. And if anyone does those furring strips I'd suggest ample PL Premium and a high grade screw (thousands of them) ;)

tcleve4911 04-23-2011 08:21 AM

Ripping out the whole wall sounds easy when you're just addressing the new openings. It's when it comes down to tying into all the small details that you will realize how much harder and longer building a new wall will take.
Not worth it IMHO.

Do all your framing for your new doors and windows with 2x6.
Then fur the rest of the wall to the new "plane".

....signed,
Remodeler for 30 years. Done it both ways.

jackpine 04-23-2011 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcleve4911 (Post 634860)
Ripping out the whole wall sounds easy when you're just addressing the new openings. It's when it comes down to tying into all the small details that you will realize how much harder and longer building a new wall will take.
Not worth it IMHO.

Do all your framing for your new doors and windows with 2x6.
Then fur the rest of the wall to the new "plane".

....signed,
Remodeler for 30 years. Done it both ways.

Could you expand on the small details that I am probably not thinking of?

tcleve4911 04-23-2011 08:41 AM

Existing corners need to be separated from the return corner and now you have to come up with an inside nailer for your wallcovering.
Top plate needs to be tied into rafters. (think about how to get at the last one on each end)
Shoe will extend into your existing flooring dealing with details in the corners.

Maybe you don't mind overcoming those types of extra work.

jackpine 04-23-2011 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcleve4911 (Post 634874)
Existing corners need to be separated from the return corner and now you have to come up with an inside nailer for your wallcovering.
Top plate needs to be tied into rafters. (think about how to get at the last one on each end)
Shoe will extend into your existing flooring dealing with details in the corners.

Maybe you don't mind overcoming those types of extra work.

Thank you. These are things that I did think about. The other walls will be re-done as this one is in the future, but not right now due to time and money. This floor is the middle floor, so the rafters are not the issue. I am open to any suggestions though, especially from a seasoned re modeler!

tcleve4911 04-23-2011 09:27 AM

I guess my reply would be....
Since the building has been standing on it's own for a while, the only reason for the added wall depth is for insulation.

So do it with whatever way you are comfortable.
If building a temp wall for support and dust protection is the way you like...then go for it.

If my way makes sense, then do it that way.

There's always more that one way to do any project and they can all be the right way.:thumbsup:

tcleve4911 04-23-2011 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wildie (Post 634135)
If you wish to make the wall thicker to add insulation it can be furred out using 2X2's.

:no: 2x2 = 1-1/2" x 1-1/2" .

The difference between 2x4 and 2x6 = 2"
(3-1/2" and 5-1/2")

jackpine 04-23-2011 09:38 AM

I guess in my minds eye, I see it easier. The ceiling is going to be re-rocked eventually too. Maybe I am not explaining the project very well. Once I start tearing the paneling off I may decide to do it differently. No plumbing and only a light switch and two outlets on the wall. It is insulated like cr@p right now, and the wood paneling is warped. I can look right in to the wall in a couple joints, and I see foil faced insulation.

Wildie 04-23-2011 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcleve4911 (Post 634900)
:no: 2x2 = 1-1/2" x 1-1/2" .

The difference between 2x4 and 2x6 = 2"
(3-1/2" and 5-1/2")

That 1/2" would give almost R2 in fibreglass insulation. Hardly worth the trouble of ripping the furring to be exactly 2". I doubt that the payback would be worth the time and labor to do so.

The OP is intending to increase the window openings, so as to enjoy the view. This alone will increase the heat loss to the extent that whats left of the wall is superfluous.


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