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Old 01-14-2010, 11:53 PM   #1
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Renos for tenants, in older home for function, privacy, safety & pride in there liv


I know I think all the negatives of ripping off the porch.

Here is what I think would be the positives. (and its what i'm kind of what I'm looking for. Positive feed backs of things I can do if I remove the porch. I like all the feed back and I may end up putting the porch back on. But I want to explore the other options )

*Non of the windows or doors that are located in that porch area get any sunlight. The rooms get now natural sunlight which is huge.
*Tenants will have there own private area to sit and relax.
*The cost for me.
*The front structure will be put back to original. The two front doors you see at front were put there after and not original.
* When you park two cars in driveway you need to carry everything the length of the porch twice. ( this may not should like a big issue but if you have any type of health issue it makes it easier.
*I would like to incorporate some kind of outside storage system in new steps for tenants things such as shovels, salt, tools, bikes things like that.

I trying to find pictures of house's with similar structure of mine, but without the porch. Even with larger windows ( I know things will need to be structured the right way) or when you see house's the walls come forward on a slant a few feet out and across. ( Sorry that i'm having a hard time explaining what I mean. )

I understand with changes that I will need to get architect to do final design for supports changes etc. That's why i'm looking for a few options before I make a decision and have the plans done up.

This is the only picture I could find that has the front area coming out simular to what i mean. The house for sale is a pic I found online. The Green house is my place I want to renovate.
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Renos for tenants, in older home for function, privacy, safety & pride in there liv-200-ext-pic.jpg   Renos for tenants, in older home for function, privacy, safety & pride in there liv-img_4046.jpg   Renos for tenants, in older home for function, privacy, safety & pride in there liv-img_4048.jpg   Renos for tenants, in older home for function, privacy, safety & pride in there liv-img_4056.jpg   Renos for tenants, in older home for function, privacy, safety & pride in there liv-img_4113.jpg  

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Last edited by willowgirl; 01-15-2010 at 08:54 PM.
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Old 01-15-2010, 07:15 AM   #2
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Renos for tenants, in older home for function, privacy, safety & pride in there liv


Hello, I am a remodel carpenter in upstate NY, and I ran the Building maintenance end of a property management company near Saratoga that operated a few of these types of older rental units (100+ yrs old). As far as updating the exterior look of the home, I suggest a modern paint scheme and vinyl shudders. That is propbably the quickest and cheapest thing you can do. There are other variables that go into any other work that you might want to get done. Are you going to keep these units for a long time? Do you pay the heating bill? If you do, I agree with the removing the porch idea. But while you are at it, the void in the siding is going to have to be replaced, and that never looks right, if it is cobbed together with new stuff, so you might as well remove all of the siding on the front addition, blow insulation in(if needed), and vapor barrier wrap, and re-side it with energy efficient foam core vinyl, or low maintenance hardie siding. At the same time, replace all the windows with good ones. Make sure the counterweight pockets get insulated and the new windows are sealed and flashed well. The cost savings in heating oil will be noticeable. If you could do this to the entire house, the savings will be exponential. Switching the boiler to a propane high-efficiency one and the radiators to low profile high efficiency models also help considerably. Oh, and of course, add insulation in the attic. I have to stop for a minute to take a virtual breath. Ahhh that's better. And then... just kidding. the list could go on and on with these older homes. I guess it just depends on the length of time you will own these units(are they going to be your retirement income?), and what kind of tenants you have now, and what kind of tenants you are looking to attract(how much do you plan to charge for rent?). These factors play a big part of the quality of the updates, i.e. 500 dollars for a gravel drive, or 5000 dollars for a stamped and dyed concrete drive. Hope this helps.

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Old 01-15-2010, 11:13 AM   #3
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Renos for tenants, in older home for function, privacy, safety & pride in there liv


I'm planning on keeping the places long term. When I started with the rental properties My thought was finding places I could see the potential and afford. So I by old homes that need alot of work that people just don't want to deal with. My investment was sweet equity I called it. Do as much as I could myself. I did hire a few different contractors but really had bad experiences because I was very trusting of everything and thought they new better than me, even though things didn't look right. But as I would research things I started to see that maybe I was right.
So then I would do more cosmetic things like, ripping up all the floors and put new ones down, paint everything etc. I would go to seminars and learn more things like insulating, plumbing, tub surrounds, and believe or not electrical. They don't have electrical anymore. ( The guy told us in the seminar that we didn't need permits most things. I talked to them after and told them I didnt' feel they were correct about that. ) I had a few electricians come in to a place that i was putting in an apartment for quotes and I couldn't afford it, so I asked the electricians if I did the work, running of wire's to the box's, hook up the plug's, switch's heaters etc would they then come back at each step to make sure its was done correct and to code. This was a big savings for me, good for the electrician still made good money to go and follow lines connections all that good stuff.
I know that's kind of long winded but just wanted to give alittle history to help understand my way of thinking and things I've been able to do.

So now what i'm trying to do is get others suggestions that maybe I didn't think of to do plans which will help me figure out cost and finding contractors that know what they are doing for things I can't.

Ok, so the Green house you see my plan is to Rip off all the exterior, insulate and side over it. Also New windows.

(Some of the problems I ran into when having quotes done for me is lack of details such as window and door types, type of insulation, siding etc. It was like pulling out teeth when I would call to ask questions about the information. I was getting oh it would be a standard window, ( which means nothing, because everyone makes different types and quality) Same with the insulation, and the procedure they would go through when doing work. Not one company took into consideration that from wrap around deck which is in really bad shape. Prices came in around say $36,000. Without any work to the deck or even mention anything about the deck.)

I want to rip off the wrap around deck and its roof. I would build new steps to each door. Now this is where you may find it tricky to understand what I want to do. The two doors in from of the house would be removed. The were but in sometime after house was built and really changed the floor plan inside. So the door on the right side of the house would move back to be under where you see the top one with steps coming down. If you look at other side of out (left) Like that. the middle front door would come out, its for the upstairs apt, where you see the top door on the right. I haven't decided yet about the other unit doors because the floor plan will change some to what it was originally.

So for the 2 ext. doors on main floor, I think I would put a 4 ft landing in front of door with steps coming down, which brings steps on each side of you coming out to about 4 ft back from the front side of house. (not front of deck thats there now.)

I'm trying to think of a way to make the front of the house look nice, and not boxy when it wont have the wrap around deck.
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Old 01-15-2010, 01:50 PM   #4
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Renos for tenants, in older home for function, privacy, safety & pride in there liv


I just don't see why you would want to rip out that porch, I think it makes the house really nice. I think that any investment on the porch would pay off in the long run when you resell the place. What needs to be fixed on the porch to bring it back to good shape. taking the port out and dispossing of it seems like a lot of work and money as well
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Old 01-15-2010, 02:24 PM   #5
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Renos for tenants, in older home for function, privacy, safety & pride in there liv


Are you planning on residing ? Ah - you are
Ripping the porch off means siding & painting
And it would really ruin the house IMO
How many Apts are there ?
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Old 01-15-2010, 04:42 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketdoctor View Post
I just don't see why you would want to rip out that porch, I think it makes the house really nice. I think that any investment on the porch would pay off in the long run when you resell the place. What needs to be fixed on the porch to bring it back to good shape. taking the port out and dispossing of it seems like a lot of work and money as well
I understand why you think that but its a major issue. It was not built or supported correct. I've had a few different look at it to have it supported correct which they said they could do but it would have to all be restructured first as its very week. Also the roof on it is not structured correct and at least half rotten. The left side of the porch so water damaged and rotten that It may not make it through the winter.

I'm not planning on selling it at any point. I buy the places for the monthly income.
Another reason for taking it off is tenants hanging out on it and smoking etc. The idea I have is each unit could have its own deck area for privacy, and if you smoke it wont bother the other tenants. (when they open windows, or are coming home and have to walk by it.

This is why I'm trying to get some suggestions on changes to the house before the insulation and siding and windows are done.

Also by each unit having its own entrance they are responsible for there own snow removal. Which would save me money if I had to pay someone to do it. Also the roof over the deck eventually would need maintenance and if I remove it, its done. I don't have to pay to have a new one put up properly which would be very costly.
Tenants tend to decide they should sit or walk on it to. Don't ask me why, I've had problems where tenants don't listen, and my neighbour said its always been a problem.
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Old 01-15-2010, 04:49 PM   #7
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Renos for tenants, in older home for function, privacy, safety & pride in there liv


Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuba_Dave View Post
Are you planning on residing ? Ah - you are
Ripping the porch off means siding & painting
And it would really ruin the house IMO
How many Apts are there ?
I'm not painting anything. Yes I know that siding means ripping it off which is part of the plan. Right now I'm finding lots of water damage and need to rip everything off to fix any problems I can't see. I think what would and is ruining the house is the water damage this is causing and its pulling parts of the house outward. I think the last people just kept painting over it to kind of make it look nice as things were rotting. I would rather have a safe structure with no moisture issues or damage than cosmetic beauty.
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Old 01-15-2010, 05:09 PM   #8
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Renos for tenants, in older home for function, privacy, safety & pride in there liv


Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuba_Dave View Post
Are you planning on residing ? Ah - you are
Ripping the porch off means siding & painting
And it would really ruin the house IMO
How many Apts are there ?
Whats IMO mean?
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Old 01-15-2010, 05:14 PM   #9
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Renos for tenants, in older home for function, privacy, safety & pride in there liv


Quote:
Originally Posted by willowgirl View Post
Whats IMO mean?
In my opinion. heres a place to find out a bunch other abbreviations
http://www.webopedia.com/quick_ref/t...reviations.asp
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Old 01-15-2010, 05:55 PM   #10
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Renos for tenants, in older home for function, privacy, safety & pride in there liv


I know I think all the negatives of ripping off the porch.

Here is what I think would be the positives. (and its what i'm kind of what I'm looking for. Positive feed backs of things I can do if I remove the porch. I like all the feed back and I may end up putting the porch back on. But I want to explore the other options )

*Non of the windows or doors that are located in that porch area get any sunlight. The rooms get now natural sunlight which is huge.
*Tenants will have there own private area to sit and relax.
*The cost for me.
*The front structure will be put back to original. The two front doors you see at front were put there after and not original.
* When you park two cars in driveway you need to carry everything the length of the porch twice. ( this may not should like a big issue but if you have any type of health issue it makes it easier.
*I would like to incorporate some kind of outside storage system in new steps for tenants things such as shovels, salt, tools, bikes things like that.

I trying to find pictures of house's with similar structure of mine, but without the porch. Even with larger windows ( I know things will need to be structured the right way) or when you see house's the walls come forward on a slant a few feet out and across. ( Sorry that i'm having a hard time explaining what I mean. )

I understand with changes that I will need to get architect to do final design for supports changes etc. That's why i'm looking for a few options before I make a decision and have the plans done up.

This is the only picture I could find that has the front area coming out simular to what i mean. The house for sale is a pic I found online. The Green house is my place I want to renovate.
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Renos for tenants, in older home for function, privacy, safety & pride in there liv-200-ext-pic.jpg  
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Last edited by willowgirl; 01-15-2010 at 05:59 PM. Reason: To add a picture of my house, to help understand what I'm talking about.
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Old 01-15-2010, 06:00 PM   #11
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Renos for tenants, in older home for function, privacy, safety & pride in there liv


Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketdoctor View Post
In my opinion. heres a place to find out a bunch other abbreviations
http://www.webopedia.com/quick_ref/t...reviations.asp
Thank you,
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Old 01-15-2010, 06:07 PM   #12
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Renos for tenants, in older home for function, privacy, safety & pride in there liv


I started a different thread about this reno I want to do. I think maybe I'm having a hard time to explain my idea. The title is
Reno's for tenants, in older home for function, privacy, safety & pride in there living space. I think its maybe better or easier to explain what I'm looking for if I focus on a few quick things than so much details like I did here. Plus I think I made it to long.
I will still be checking on this one because I think I will still get good info but different from what I will get in other one.
Thank you for all your tips and advice. .

Last edited by willowgirl; 01-15-2010 at 08:34 PM. Reason: to take out the comment i made about loving the site.
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Old 01-15-2010, 06:10 PM   #13
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Renos for tenants, in older home for function, privacy, safety & pride in there liv


Please do not start multiple threads on the same topic

2 threads on same topic have been merged
Thank you
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Old 01-15-2010, 06:20 PM   #14
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Renos for tenants, in older home for function, privacy, safety & pride in there liv


You sound like you are on the right track with fixing from outside in, that roof looks like a water problem. Me I would try to figure if the deck was salvagable and use a partition to seperate the duplex. Porchs and roofed over porchs bring in higher rent and depending on the inside finishes a more upper rent clientel. You are to be commended on your hunger for knowledge and your desire to do things right the first time. Kepp looking bound to be contractors out there on the same page as you
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Old 01-15-2010, 06:39 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CustomBuild View Post
Hello, I am a remodel carpenter in upstate NY, and I ran the Building maintenance end of a property management company near Saratoga that operated a few of these types of older rental units (100+ yrs old). As far as updating the exterior look of the home, I suggest a modern paint scheme and vinyl shudders. That is propbably the quickest and cheapest thing you can do. There are other variables that go into any other work that you might want to get done. Are you going to keep these units for a long time? Do you pay the heating bill? If you do, I agree with the removing the porch idea. But while you are at it, the void in the siding is going to have to be replaced, and that never looks right, if it is cobbed together with new stuff, so you might as well remove all of the siding on the front addition, blow insulation in(if needed), and vapor barrier wrap, and re-side it with energy efficient foam core vinyl, or low maintenance hardie siding. At the same time, replace all the windows with good ones. Make sure the counterweight pockets get insulated and the new windows are sealed and flashed well. The cost savings in heating oil will be noticeable. If you could do this to the entire house, the savings will be exponential. Switching the boiler to a propane high-efficiency one and the radiators to low profile high efficiency models also help considerably. Oh, and of course, add insulation in the attic. I have to stop for a minute to take a virtual breath. Ahhh that's better. And then... just kidding. the list could go on and on with these older homes. I guess it just depends on the length of time you will own these units(are they going to be your retirement income?), and what kind of tenants you have now, and what kind of tenants you are looking to attract(how much do you plan to charge for rent?). These factors play a big part of the quality of the updates, i.e. 500 dollars for a gravel drive, or 5000 dollars for a stamped and dyed concrete drive. Hope this helps.
Yes I'm planning on keeping these buildings for a long time. Your feedback is great, everything you talk about are things I've been looking into. I do pay the heating bills for the units. That may change depending on the renovations. I still want to make it as energy efficient as possible even if tenant pays heat. Its not that I want the cheapest solution, its more about me doing research to help me save money in the long run. Or better use of money.
As for tenants, Everyone wants great low maintenance tenants that are responsible and pay bills etc. I would like to have a place that is adult and child friendly which is a little more difficult when mixing the two. I know its difficult for family's or single parents to find good rentals.
From a landlord side though, its hard with young children if other tenants are single and like to have friends over or go out and arrive home late. Or if there's a baby that cries in the night. Kids running around being noisy early mornings. etc. Its a hard balance sometimes.
Any advise or suggestions feel free to let me know. You hit all the things I've been thinking about that house in your response.

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