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Old 12-04-2007, 11:23 AM   #1
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Remove Basement Lally Column?


Existing there are 3 - 2x10 girders across the 26'wide foundation which are attached into the foundation walls at each end and supported across the basement by 3 lally columns approximately 6' apart.

I want to remove the one lally column that is the first column from the foundation. This would create a span of 12' from the foundation to the "center" column (see 4 photos attached).

I've hung 2 - 12' 91/2" LVLs sandwiching the existing 2x10s.

To support the ends of the LVLs, I've placed 5-king studs (2x4) on each end, supporting the "5" girders (2-LVLs and 3-2x10s), one next to the foundation wall and one next to the "center" lally so the span between the new king studs is 11' 4".

The kings studs are bolted through using 1/2" x 10" carraige bolts in the top and bottom 3rd of the studs.

The LVLs are bolted 16" O.C. staggered top/bottom through all 5 girders also using the 1/2" x 10" carraige bolts.

The extra images include the basic house size and a photo of the house. Facing the front of the house, we're working on the left front support.

I'd like to find out the maximum loads the original was verses the remodeled maximum load as a comparison so:

What is the maximum load of the original design of 3-2x10 spanning 6'?

What is the maximum load of the 2 new LVLs (with the 2x10s sandwiched) spanning 11' 4"?

Do the maximum load of the new LVLs meet or exceed the maximum load of the original design?

Can I now remove the lally column?
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Remove Basement Lally Column?-img_0086.jpg   Remove Basement Lally Column?-img_0087.jpg   Remove Basement Lally Column?-img_0091.jpg   Remove Basement Lally Column?-img_0090.jpg   Remove Basement Lally Column?-house.jpg  

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Last edited by zslavin; 12-04-2007 at 11:31 AM.
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Old 12-04-2007, 11:39 AM   #2
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Remove Basement Lally Column?


I'd love to move one of the columns in my basement too, I just would be far too nervous even if I took all the precautions that you did. I'm not saying that you did anything wrong though!

Would there be any benefit to have used steel?

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Old 12-04-2007, 02:19 PM   #3
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Remove Basement Lally Column?


Did all the 2x10 pass over the post you are removing all the way to the next because if they spliced them over the removed post they would not help pass the load over the new span. Are you removing 1 post from each end(2 total) or just 1? What is the foundation under the center post you are adding all the load to? Which walls on the first floor are load bearing and where? You can't just figure the old load add work from there because who said that was right. I think you are look at a real problem if you don't stop now and call a lumber yard that has an engineer on staff to firgure you load and needs. They do this for free, NOT A BOX STORE they just guess.
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Old 12-04-2007, 03:55 PM   #4
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Remove Basement Lally Column?


To answer your questions:

Did all the 2x10 pass over the post you are removing all the way to the next because if they spliced them over the removed post they would not help pass the load over the new span.

The 3 - 2x10 pass over the lally column. Prior to hanging the LVLs I can see that the 2 - outside 2x10s were spliced over the column I want to remove. I could not see the 3rd 2x10 that was sandwiched in between them. For purposes of calculating the stregth of the 3 - 2x10s I would say they are all spliced over the column I want to remove and therefore of no support help for us.

Are you removing 1 post from each end (2 total) or just 1?

I want to remove only 1 column, on one side of the house.

What is the foundation under the center post you are adding all the load to?

The house was built in 1970 and the town does not have the original plans. I'd assume that the builder put some sort of a footing under all the lallys but I don't know for sure. There are no signs of cracking, etc in the foundation nor floor areas around the Lallys.

Which walls on the first floor are load bearing and where?

On the 1st floor directly above the girder is a wall between the livingroom & diningroom with a 6' opening (header above that). This wall supports the second floor master bedroom. On the second floor directly above the lvrm/dnrm dividing wall, there is a partition wall seperating 2 bedrooms. In the attic above that there are only the celing joists so the 2nd floor bedroom partition walls support the attic rafters. The roof is supported on the outside wall.

There are no bathrooms on that side of the house so we have just the dead loads for the 1st & 2nd floors with the supporting walls as described above along with the live loads from the lvrm/dnrm & bedroom furniture/closet live loads.

-------------------------------------------

I figured that the footing under the center lally column should be strong enough to pick up the extra load and am willing to take a shot at that. I'll just have to monitor it to make sure nothing starts sinking.

I also figure that since 2 of the 3 triple 2x10s were spliced over the lally I want to remove, there is no support contribution from the triple 2x10s sandwiched between the 2 new LVLs. The 2x10s in that space then become a "holder" for the 2 new LVLs (by bolting them in place to the 2x10s).

As a side note, if the center stick of the triple 2x10s is NOT spliced over the Lally I am removing then we pick up the extra load capacity from that but we're calculating the LVLs to support everything on their own so that does not matter.

Photos can be viewed online at http://67.102.42.76/lally/
--------------------------------------------

The question becomes then:

Do the 2 - new 91/2 LVLs at a span of 11'4" deliver sufficent load support for the 1st floor, second floor and attic joists.

My thinking is that if the 2 - new LVLs at 11'4" meet or exceed the maximum load capaciaty of the triple 2x10s at 6' then i can take out the Lally.

Can someone tell me the maximum load capacity of the triple 2x10s spanning 6' vs the maximum load capacity of the 91/2 LVLs spanning 11'4" (and installed/fastened as descibed) and if the LVLs over 11'4" will support what used to be supported by a triple 2x10 over 2-6' sections?

-------------------------------------------------
I think you are look at a real problem if you don't stop now and call a lumber yard that has an engineer on staff to firgure you load and needs. They do this for free, NOT A BOX STORE they just guess.

I purchased the LVLs from the lumber yard and went over the design with a counter guy there (I've worked with in the past) however he is not an engineer and did not do the load calcualtions.

Last edited by zslavin; 12-04-2007 at 05:10 PM.
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Old 12-04-2007, 04:22 PM   #5
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Remove Basement Lally Column?


I would have added two 1/2" flitch plates to the lvl sandwich.
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Old 12-04-2007, 04:45 PM   #6
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Remove Basement Lally Column?


Ron,

Can you be more specific in your answer?

I can still unbolt the LVL from the nut side of the carraige bolts (or both sides for that matter) and add the 2 plates, one on each side.

When you say two (2) 1/2" flitch plates, is there a standard size/dimension to the steel plates?

I know you are speaking about 1/2" thick and it of course has to run the 12' in length but as far as the height, do I match it to the 91/4" (2x) lumber.

So you're suggesting I add 2 - 1/2" pieces of steel totaling 1" x 91/4 x 12'? and if I undo everything I add one to each side of the sandwich?

Did you reach this based on a load calculation?

Thanks for responding, Zach
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Old 12-04-2007, 05:32 PM   #7
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Remove Basement Lally Column?


This senario is more of an extrapolation of a job I did when I added an addition to my house. Plans called for two 9 1/4" lvl's with a 1/2"x 9 1/4"x 16' flitch plate in between bolted in a "W" pattern every 16". Bolted to that was a 3/8" lintel to hold up the second story brick fascade. The span was 16' of a load bearing exterior wall. I doubt the load you're carrying would be more but the extra flitch plate is just for insurance. Your install will be trickier with the two plates from the lining up issue. I drilled the holes in the LVL's based upon the holes bored in the steel. I put the items up one at a time and bolted them together once in place.
Again this is not based on a load calculation of your house.
You cannot rest the beam on the multiple 2x4's against the wall only sitting on the slab. You need a footing 24"x24"x24" to support the load. You could also support the load by cutting a pocket in the foundation and slide the lvl's into it with the proper moisture barriers. If staying with the vertical support next to the foundation I would use a metal vertical support rather then the wood 2x4's.
Ron
PS: the wall is still up there and the brick fascade is still in place.

Last edited by Ron6519; 12-04-2007 at 05:40 PM. Reason: info update
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Old 12-05-2007, 07:32 AM   #8
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Remove Basement Lally Column?


I personaly don't think 2 9 1/2" LVL are enough and I dont count any of the existing 2 x 10 as you don't know where the splices are. Get the lumber yard you bought them at to run the numbers they can call the LVL supplyer for the exact load figures. I think you'll need atleast a third and have all the 2x10 in the middle is actully working aganst you by allowing the LVL to be seperated. Get the numbers and make sure you're safe
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Old 12-05-2007, 11:10 AM   #9
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Remove Basement Lally Column?


Zach,

First of all, where did you get your information from to use lvl's? Second, why are you asking now after the fact when you should have asked an Architect or Engineer to figure this out?

No one here can possibly give you the answers you need unless they went over your house and measured every joist and the length, what the girder is carrying on the first floor or second floor if you have one. Also what the second floor is carrying. There could be a beam that sits where the column you went to take out is. That beam could be carrying a load above. These are just a few things that have to be taken in consideration.

So, what's your next step? You can't find the answer here on the internet for this, it's to dangerous for you to listen to someone who hasn't seen your house. You feel comfortable with that?

Taken out columns is not a DYI'er project unless you have professional advise.
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Old 12-05-2007, 12:00 PM   #10
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Remove Basement Lally Column?


I notice it's a very large basement space, what's the problem with the lally column being left alone? Seems like a lot of trouble to go through just to remove one column.
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Old 08-18-2011, 07:22 PM   #11
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Remove Basement Lally Column?


use a steel 10 inch channel i did it to my house and nothing moved and i have a 18 foot span between columns

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