Reinforcing Beam with Steel Plates

tony.g · 07-31-2012, 03:33 PM

Adding 2x10s to the sides of the steel plates would make this a very wide beam, and yes, the extra weight would go on to the columns.
If you definitely, positively, desperately want to go down the route of fixing steel to the outside (not really recommended), then it would be better to use steel angle, say something like 6x3, where the outstand 3" leg serves to stiffen the steel to prevent it buckling.
But you still need input on where and what type of fixings you need. The labour is a DIY proposition, but the design isn't. This is what people are trying to tell you.

GBrackins · 07-31-2012, 03:44 PM

Albertom,

you have gotten excellent advise from multiple posts ..... however none of these replies are providing you with what you WANT, but they provide you with what you NEED. If someone you do not know (or their level of knowledge or experience) says its OK to do what you want, WOULD YOU?????

Joe Carola · 07-31-2012, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Albertom

Thanks for the responses.
The plates are 14ft long. I have not seen an engineer. I called a few and they wanted between $500-$800 just to tell me if I can do this. I know some would say money well spent but $ is a factor.

It appears to me, which can be referenced by the picture of my attic, that most of the snow/roof weight is to the outside walls except at 4 different locations where 2x4's come down from the center of the peak/roof to a different joist of the attic floor(2nd floor ceiling). Attic joists lay from front to back of house. Not sure if I'm correct in this thought.

The 1st floor: I opened up the wall above this basement beam about 10ft 8in. So the point of weight transfer to the basement beam is just above the basement lolly column on the end by my stairs and the other point of weight transfer is on the other end 36 inches before the small basement lolly column. Pictures attached of the first floor wall above the basement beam.

Flitch plates I have been told get sandwich between lumber to help against the possibility of the steel buckling out under load. I have seen plates placed on beams on the outside with no lumber on the outsides. Just bolts holding them. Is it right I don't know but does it hold the weight with no problems? I would hope so.
If I were to place the metal plates on each side of my beam and bolt a piece of 2x10 the length of the steel on each side of the steel, the 2x10's will not be transfering any weight to the lolly column due to sitting outside the lolly column plate. Plate not being wide enough but would it serve the purpose of holding the 14 ft steel plates in place from buckling? Do I even need to do this?

So bottom line is that you're winging it and guessing at this. And asking in the internet for answers about a MAJOR structural issue in your house. Not smart at all. Again....are you getting permits and inspections.

If you can afford to finish your basement....you can afford to pay an engineer. Bottom line here is that you will never get an answer on this forum...its impossible. Use your head and do the right thing.

Albertom · 07-31-2012, 03:59 PM

I understand. I'll either forget about taking the lolly column out or call an engineer. Contractors that have done some of this work in the past have told me to put up 2 plates on each side but I know how that goes. You have a car noise and everybody has an answer to what it is, without asking the qualifying questions. Again, I appreciate and welcome all input. Thank you.

Joe Carola · 07-31-2012, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Albertom

I understand. I'll either forget about taking the lolly column out or call an engineer. .

Smart thing to do.

GBrackins · 07-31-2012, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Albertom

I understand. I'll either forget about taking the lolly column out or call an engineer. Contractors that have done some of this work in the past have told me to put up 2 plates on each side but I know how that goes. You have a car noise and everybody has an answer to what it is, without asking the qualifying questions. Again, I appreciate and welcome all input. Thank you.

We're not on here to beat people up, just to provide them with the proper guidance. Sometimes its not what you want to hear, but what you need to hear.

Good luck!

AndyGump · 07-31-2012, 08:36 PM

Engineers, Architects and designers take a on a lot of liability for the money they charge.

Especially engineers and they are worth the money.

They will mathematically justify the design they come up with.

Andy.

Daniel Holzman · 07-31-2012, 08:55 PM

When you discuss this project with your engineer, you should allow them the flexibility to examine a variety of alternatives besides the external flitch plate concept you proposed. There are several other potential ways to strengthen the beam, and you should certainly consider replacing the beam with a properly sized one to carry the entire load. Your engineer should be afforded the flexibility to look at every reasonable alternative, and select the most cost effective one for your circumstance.

If you plan to do the work yourself, that would figure into the decision about which option to select. Since cost appears to be a major factor in your approach, you should definitely make a point of informing any potential engineer you may want to hire what your expectations are (you want a written design, you want stamped plans, you want the engineer to meet with the building inspector to obtain a permit etc.), and the maximum you are willing to spend. No point wasting the engineer's time making a site visit to your place if their typical fee exceeds your allowable budget.

DeanColumn1 · 08-01-2012, 11:37 AM

You can contact this company, http://www.betterheader.com/ They make flitch plates and may give you the info you need without spending $$$.

David
www.DeanColumn.com

Albertom · 08-30-2012, 08:08 PM

Ok. Well I hired an engineer who charged me $700 but what he came up with is. (2) steel plates 3/8"x9"x 13' bolted to the outside of my current beam which currently consists of (3) 2x10's. I have attached some pictures of the print provided to me. Maybe it can help someone else in the same type of situation.

The only thing in question is that I spoke to a couple other engineers who have suggested staggering the top bolt holes from the bottom bolt holes. I know there are some engineers here and contractors that have done this. any suggestions?

sixeightten · 08-30-2012, 08:14 PM

Keep the bolts just like he shows. That bolt layout is part of the engineering. We have seen it called out both ways. That is money well spent. Glad to see that someone took good advice here, spent some money, and will sleep very very well.

GBrackins · 08-30-2012, 08:18 PM

two big thumbs up Albertom!

thank you for posting back, keep us updated after its completed.

Install the bolts as shown, if you change anything on the drawing then any issues are on you and not your engineer!

Good luck!

SPS-1 · 08-30-2012, 10:28 PM

..........

07-31-2012, 03:33 PM	#16
tony.g Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: non-US Posts: 546	Reinforcing Beam with Steel Plates Adding 2x10s to the sides of the steel plates would make this a very wide beam, and yes, the extra weight would go on to the columns. If you definitely, positively, desperately want to go down the route of fixing steel to the outside (not really recommended), then it would be better to use steel angle, say something like 6x3, where the outstand 3" leg serves to stiffen the steel to prevent it buckling. But you still need input on where and what type of fixings you need. The labour is a DIY proposition, but the design isn't. This is what people are trying to tell you. Last edited by tony.g; 07-31-2012 at 03:36 PM.

07-31-2012, 03:44 PM	#17
GBrackins Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Fairhaven, Massachusetts Posts: 2,355	Reinforcing Beam with Steel Plates Albertom, you have gotten excellent advise from multiple posts ..... however none of these replies are providing you with what you WANT, but they provide you with what you NEED. If someone you do not know (or their level of knowledge or experience) says its OK to do what you want, WOULD YOU????? __________________ Gary "You get what you pay for, and sometimes free costs more!"

07-31-2012, 03:59 PM	#19
Albertom Newbie Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 6	Reinforcing Beam with Steel Plates I understand. I'll either forget about taking the lolly column out or call an engineer. Contractors that have done some of this work in the past have told me to put up 2 plates on each side but I know how that goes. You have a car noise and everybody has an answer to what it is, without asking the qualifying questions. Again, I appreciate and welcome all input. Thank you. Last edited by Albertom; 07-31-2012 at 04:03 PM.

07-31-2012, 08:36 PM	#22
AndyGump Residential Designer Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Orange County CA. Posts: 1,166	Reinforcing Beam with Steel Plates Engineers, Architects and designers take a on a lot of liability for the money they charge. Especially engineers and they are worth the money. They will mathematically justify the design they come up with. Andy. __________________ Residential Drafter/Designer To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

07-31-2012, 08:55 PM	#23
Daniel Holzman Civil Engineer Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Boston Posts: 3,583	Reinforcing Beam with Steel Plates When you discuss this project with your engineer, you should allow them the flexibility to examine a variety of alternatives besides the external flitch plate concept you proposed. There are several other potential ways to strengthen the beam, and you should certainly consider replacing the beam with a properly sized one to carry the entire load. Your engineer should be afforded the flexibility to look at every reasonable alternative, and select the most cost effective one for your circumstance. If you plan to do the work yourself, that would figure into the decision about which option to select. Since cost appears to be a major factor in your approach, you should definitely make a point of informing any potential engineer you may want to hire what your expectations are (you want a written design, you want stamped plans, you want the engineer to meet with the building inspector to obtain a permit etc.), and the maximum you are willing to spend. No point wasting the engineer's time making a site visit to your place if their typical fee exceeds your allowable budget.

Reinforcing Beam with Steel Plates