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Old 07-11-2012, 07:16 PM   #16
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Re-Studding Old Wall


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Can you build out (and up) the 4x8 and set the joists on top?
I'm not following, sorry. Are you talking about adding additional lumber to the face of the 4x8 to bring it out to 5.5" total? And then using the same balloon frame/notched joist approach - just hang them off of the beam instead of the let in/studs?

Ideally I'd like to do the same thing with the first, second and third floors. That is, fasten a ledger to the wall studs and hang new joists off of the ledger via joist hangers. This approach would be a lot closer to today's platform framing with the ledger acting as a rim joist. I'm researching to see if this approach is possible, safe and code compliant.


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Old 07-12-2012, 12:09 AM   #17
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I've attached my sketchup drawing showing the connections between all of the framing members. I included the inset to better show 1) the let-in ribbon on the second floor and 2) that the first floor and second floor wall studs are separated by the 4x8 beam.

Hopefully this paints a better picture of what I'm dealing with and may generate some ideas. At this point, I'm thinking ripping 2x6 down to 2x4 is the best option, but I'd still like to hear some other opinions. Thanks again!
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Old 07-12-2012, 12:33 AM   #18
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Wow pittsville. That is awesome. I don't know what your day job is but you probably would have made a great career out of being an architect. The thing is though, I can see how its done. But now I need measurements. First in a set of plans you look at the architects drawings, and then with each section the engineer draws it the acceptable way the architect has drawn it. I hate to be picky with you, but without knowing height measurements I won't be able to give you a simple solution. Meaning.. You were kind of saying you would like to do the same thing on every floor.. I doubt that will happen but it its possible. . But knowing the height of the notch on the 2x4 second floor studs where the inlet ribbon would help. And also the height of the notch on the first floor joist would also help. It sounds like you are basically trying to reinforce the whole home without tearing it down. Sounds like new joist are going up on every floor, but yet keeping the old ones intact. I would like to help you come up with a solution that involves the least work , yet at the same time ensures a solid structure.
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Old 07-12-2012, 12:43 AM   #19
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I firmly believe that many heads are better than one, especially when dealing with unique issues such as this one. I greatly appreciate your assistance and feedback!

I will take measurements tomorrow and create a more detailed drawing. I threw this one together quickly to show the various connections.
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Old 07-12-2012, 12:56 AM   #20
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LOL ! you should also fire your engineer. I'm free! Seems as though you are the kind of guy that does research before he starts a project... But with your project there is always going to be unforeseen issues. And I want to let you know, that with what your dealing with, there are plenty of architects/engineers that would have a map drawn out for you. You should have a plan on paper. Calling an engineer and getting charged on a "as needed basis" is not the right way. It should be drawn, to spec, and any confliction along the way will be dealt with. Anyway, I look forward to the measurements and hope I can help.. P.S. Sorry you lost Manning and looking forward to him back on the field.
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Old 07-12-2012, 01:25 AM   #21
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Sadly, I've been through a couple of engineers and a boat load of money. I'm now at the point of renovating paycheck to paycheck, so things are a little more tight. At the same time, the girlfriend is growing increasingly more impatient and wants to see results. I seem to have chosen to live in the one area of the country that lacks thorough engineers and building inspectors. It's very difficult to get reliable answers and advice around here. That's why I turn to this forum from time to time.

Yeah, bummer losing Peyton. I'll be watching some Broncos games this season, that's for sure!

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Old 07-12-2012, 01:46 AM   #22
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LOL! So are you a Colts fan or Manning fan then? Steelers first regular season game is against the Broncos (Tebow's old team)and Manning. Second regular season game is against the Jets(Tebow's new team) Coincidence ?? I think NOT !! About your girlfriend wanting to see results.. Let her know it will be slow and steady, and the size of the beam does matter, and placement is crucial !
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Old 07-12-2012, 08:53 PM   #23
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LOL! So are you a Colts fan or Manning fan then? Steelers first regular season game is against the Broncos (Tebow's old team)and Manning. Second regular season game is against the Jets(Tebow's new team) Coincidence ?? I think NOT !! About your girlfriend wanting to see results.. Let her know it will be slow and steady, and the size of the beam does matter, and placement is crucial !
LOL, I'm a diehard Colts fan, always will be, but I'm a Manning fan as well. Everything's fine unless the two teams play each other. Hard to root against the guy who pretty much single-handedly carried the team for so many years.

So I didn't get around to getting my measurements or completing a new drawing today. We opened up a couple more of the exterior walls and made a new discovery. We found some of the original sill plates and it turns out that they're 7x8s (true 7x8"). The section of wall that we were working on the other day had rotten 6x6 plates (5.5x5.5") and we replaced them with new 6x6s. It would appear that a previous owner at some point removed the original sills and replaced them with 6x6s. The problem? The 1.5" difference between the old 7x8 and the new 6x6. It seems that they just let the wall come down the 1.5" and rest on the new sill plate. We see evidence of this in the horizontal beam between the first and second floors. The same issue exists on the other outside wall that runs into this one to form the corner of the house. So as you can imagine, the re-studding of the walls is on a temporary hold while we address this sill plate issue.

So we'll be back to jacking the house. We've decided that we want to lift the entire corner about 2" and replace the sill plate of both walls at the same time. We're going to notch, overlap and bolt them together at the corner and then lower the house back down. We had previously been comfortable jacking the 12' section, but after much discussion, we decided that we needed some help for jacking the entire corner. We got ahold of a gentleman who's a house mover and he's coming out on Sunday morning to lend a hand and teach us some safe lifting techniques. Between now and Sunday, we have to get ahold of new sill plates.

We spent all day calling/visiting every lumberyard, pressure treating company and pseudo-sawmill we could find in search of sill plates. We're going to install true 7x8 timbers in place of the existing 6x6s. There are two problems with this: 1) if you find a mill who can cut you a 7x8, it won't be pressure treated and 2) if you buy a pressure treated 8x8, nobody wants to cut it for you because it will tear up their blades. We quickly came to the conclusion that we're going to have to cut the timbers on our own. We determined that 1) our 7 1/4" circular saw isn't going to do the job, even cutting the timber from both sides 2) 10-12" deep cut circular saws are hella expensive and 3) we don't own any other type of saw that will do the trick. Just by dumb luck, we came across some timber framing and lumberjacking articles on "homemade chainsaw lumber mills". First time I've heard about these things, but the concept is brilliant. It's a jig that you secure to a chainsaw that allows you to rip through a timber horizontally at a measured depth. (1" in our case) I attached a photo below for anyone who, like me, has never seen or heard of one of these things. So tomorrow I'll be building the jig and buying a chainsaw and two 8x8x14 PT timbers to give this a try. I'm hopeful that the chain will last long enough to get through both timbers before dulling. After making the cuts, I'm going to look for some brush on preservative to treat the exposed wood. It'll be an adventure, that's for sure.

Once Sunday has come and gone and the new sill plates are in position, I'll be back to studding the walls. Additional measurements/drawings will likely come tomorrow or Saturday as I'm in a holding pattern anyway until Sunday.
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Old 07-12-2012, 09:31 PM   #24
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Probably not but is there any way the floor joists could go beside the studs and sit on the beam?
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Old 07-12-2012, 09:33 PM   #25
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Could you use a 6x6 and pack it out with 2x6 lumber and/or strips of plywood?
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Old 07-13-2012, 05:05 AM   #26
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So tomorrow I'll be building the jig and buying a chainsaw and two 8x8x14 PT timbers to give this a try. I'm hopeful that the chain will last long enough to get through both timbers
If you feel you have to rip an 8X then Buy one these (or rent a beam saw) it hooks up to a 7 ” saw and works great.

A stone on a dermal makes quick work of chain sharpening.

The Alaska mill is overkill.
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Old 07-13-2012, 09:04 AM   #27
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If you feel you have to rip an 8X then Buy one these (or rent a beam saw) it hooks up to a 7 ” saw and works great.

A stone on a dermal makes quick work of chain sharpening.

The Alaska mill is overkill.
Thats a neat tool right there! I can buy an actual chainsaw for less than the price though.

I called around yesterday looking for a beam cutter. Nobody in the area rents them.
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Old 07-13-2012, 09:04 AM   #28
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Kwikfishron I have never seen that ! When did they come out with those???? I always keep a little 12'' Stihl for cutting large glulams and such, but MOST of the time that is the only tool on the truck I ever need mixed gas for..You say they work great?? Not sure if it would make sense to spend the $150 for it just to not have a 1gallon container for mix.. but hey.. Not like I've never spent a bunch more then that on a tool I hardly use
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Old 07-13-2012, 11:15 AM   #29
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Here's the simple jig that I designed to attach to the chainsaw. $30 to build. I don't have access to a welder, so everything is fastened via 5/16" bolts.
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Old 07-13-2012, 11:38 AM   #30
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I'm not so sure as to why it is essential to trim 1'' of the 8x8 sill plate.. Seems like a waste of time to me. But it also seems you have your reasons for doing so. I understand it must have something to do with the first floor joist notch . I just can't figure out how if a 6x6 sill fit already..

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