Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Building & Construction

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 07-11-2012, 10:36 AM   #1
Maryland
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Eastern Shore, MD
Posts: 385
Share |
Default

Re-Studding Old Wall


Still working on the 130 year old house. Yesterday we jacked a 12' section of wall and replaced a rotten sill plate with a new 6x6. I would say we were mostly successful. The house didn't fall down and the new sill plate is in, but almost all of our sill sealer got pushed out as we slid the new plate into position. (Even with it stapled to the plate)

Onto the next issue. The house's walls are post and beam construction (timber frame?), but the floors are balloon framed. The first floor joists are notched and rest on the sill plate and the second floor joists are notched and hang off a ribbon that is let in to the second floor wall studs. Basically, the house is a hybrid of the two framing styles. We are looking to restud the walls to bring them up to current code, 16 oc. The issue is that the existing posts and studs are a true 4" deep. We're trying to identify the best method of installing the new wall studs.

We installed some 2x6 studs yesterday to see what it looked like. We had two goals with the 2x6s: 1) create more cavity space for insulation and 2) bring the inside and outside walls completely parallel with each other, making sheathing and drywall installation easier. The 2x6s work well for the first floor, but we run into an issue when we get to the second floor. First of all, at 5.5" deep, the 2x6 studs stick out past the horizontal beam separating the first and second floors. If we plumb the new studs with the outside of the wall, they stick out about 1.5" past the beam on the inside. (See my crude MSpaint diagram) This isn't so much of an issue, but once we get to the second floor, we have the balloon framed floor to contend with. The existing 2x4 studs have a 1" deep ribbon let in for the floor joists to rest on. If we installed 2x6 studs here, we would have to notch them 2.5" to fit around the let in ribbon. AFAIK, the maximum allowable size of a notch is 25% of the studs width, or 1-3/8" in the case of a 2x6. So this doesn't work. The second floor 2x6 stud would also be sticking out past the horizontal beam below by 1.5" on the inside. (Again, see crude diagram)

So here's our dilemma. I figure the two choices at this point are: 1) Rip down 2x6 studs to 2x4 (1.5" x 4") or 2) Frame with new 2x4s and then fur the inside of the studs with 1/2" plywood to bring them out to 4". I haven't run the figures yet, but I suspect the cost would end being about the same either way. Either option also creates problems with insulation as I'll be trying to fill a 4" deep cavity. Spray foam is out of the budget, so I was thinking 1/2" rigid foam against the back of the sheathing and then 3.5" of roxul behind that. Also, option #2 (2x4s + furring) creates a potential issue with the second floor framing. The let in ribbon would essentially be supported by a 1/2" deep notch in the 2x4 and 1/2" of plywood furring - not good.

So what do you all think? What would you do in this situation? I'm probably going to be repeating this process all the way around the house, so I want to make sure I have a good system. Thanks a million for reading and for any advice! I've included a shot below of where we ended yesterday. (Taken with iPhone, sorry for quality)
Attached Thumbnails
Re-Studding Old Wall-photo.jpg  
Attached Images
 


Last edited by Pittsville; 07-11-2012 at 09:11 PM.
Pittsville is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2012, 11:15 AM   #2
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Phoenix AZ
Posts: 452
Default

Re-Studding Old Wall


Hi. I don't mean to be rude. But I would stop everything you are doing if you're trying to bring it to code. Everything I see isn't to code. I think a permit, architect, and engineer are the people that you need to speak with.

CopperClad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2012, 11:25 AM   #3
Maryland
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Eastern Shore, MD
Posts: 385
Default

Re-Studding Old Wall


Quote:
Originally Posted by CopperClad
Hi. I don't mean to be rude. But I would stop everything you are doing if you're trying to bring it to code. Everything I see isn't to code. I think a permit, architect, and engineer are the people that you need to speak with.
We have a permit. We have paid an engineer to calculate loads.

What exactly do you see that isn't to code?

Last edited by Pittsville; 07-11-2012 at 11:28 AM.
Pittsville is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2012, 11:27 AM   #4
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Phoenix AZ
Posts: 452
Default

Re-Studding Old Wall


I will start with (A). How did you attach the 6x6 sill plate to the foundation?
CopperClad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2012, 11:31 AM   #5
Maryland
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Eastern Shore, MD
Posts: 385
Default

Re-Studding Old Wall


Quote:
Originally Posted by CopperClad
I will start with (A). How did you attach the 6x6 sill plate to the foundation?
Currently, it's just resting there. We had the building inspector take a look at it and he claims that no anchoring is needed. I will most likely anchor it anyway once I identify the best method for anchoring to the brick.

What else do you see?
Pittsville is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2012, 11:43 AM   #6
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Phoenix AZ
Posts: 452
Default

Re-Studding Old Wall


Okay. Step A in bringing up a 130 year old house to code starts with the foundation and everything that sits on it. You don't have step A answered yet, therefore how can you go any further? I understand this "inspector" say it doesn't need to be anchored, but any home that has been built in the past 30 years has been attached to the foundation/slab via bolts, straps, hold downs or something? So this 6x6 is just resting on red brick? Is there some kind of lintel holding this red brick? How do your first floor joist attach to this 6x6/red brick? I'm sorry If I come across like a jerk, but there are many things a DIY person can try/attempt. Raising a 2 story home is not one of them. With that said, I have no clue your experience level, you very well could have the qualifications to accomplish the project. Sounds like your sill seal didn't stay? Your at step A, start skipping steps now and your gonna be in a world of trouble later.
CopperClad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2012, 11:56 AM   #7
Member
 
AGWhitehouse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,378
Default

Re-Studding Old Wall


Quote:
Originally Posted by CopperClad View Post
I'm sorry If I come across like a jerk.
You certainly do because of wording like this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by CopperClad View Post
You don't have step A answered yet, therefore how can you go any further?
Slow down cowboy, the OP has an engineer and building inspector on board. That means their "Step A" was done correctly. Let's play nice.

But, I agree that copper has a point about the structure needing to be tied to the foundation for a multitude of reasons. So call up that engineer and ask away on the how-tos...
__________________
Life's too short...so enjoy it!
AGWhitehouse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2012, 12:44 PM   #8
Maryland
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Eastern Shore, MD
Posts: 385
Default

Re-Studding Old Wall


Quote:
Okay. Step A in bringing up a 130 year old house to code starts with the foundation and everything that sits on it. You don't have step A answered yet, therefore how can you go any further?
The foundation has been inspected and deemed to be structurally sound. Most of it is the original brick. There are a couple of sections, such as under the new 6x6 sill, that were replaced by a previous homeowner. These sections are block with a brick veneer. Again, inspected and deemed sound. So I don't understand your claim about step A not being answered. We've had professionals take a look and give us the green light. To ignore their opinion and assume there to be an issue would be a waste of time and money.

Quote:
I understand this "inspector" say it doesn't need to be anchored, but any home that has been built in the past 30 years has been attached to the foundation/slab via bolts, straps, hold downs or something? So this 6x6 is just resting on red brick? Is there some kind of lintel holding this red brick?
Yes, the inspector says it doesn't need to be anchored and he will pass it in it's present form. That doesn't mean that I'm ok with his assessment. I most likely will be anchoring the sill plate to the foundation. I have to identify the best method to do this for brick. Do you have a suggestion? (Because that's what I'm politely asking for...)

Quote:
How do your first floor joist attach to this 6x6/red brick?
Currently, the floor joists are notched and resting on the sill plates. I believe our goal is to remove the existing floor and pour new footings and piers. We'll pack out the back (inside) face of the sill plate and attach a ledger. We'll install joist hangers on the ledger and most likely TJIs for new floor joists.

Quote:
I'm sorry If I come across like a jerk, but there are many things a DIY person can try/attempt. Raising a 2 story home is not one of them. With that said, I have no clue your experience level, you very well could have the qualifications to accomplish the project. Sounds like your sill seal didn't stay? Your at step A, start skipping steps now and your gonna be in a world of trouble later.
No worries, it's all good. I have to disagree though with your canned comment about "Raising a 2 story home" not being something that a "DIY person" can accomplish. Because all due respect, but we DID successfully jack this wall and install a new sill plate, so apparently it IS possible. We're learning, so our experience level grows everyday. We consult engineers and building inspectors when necessary to come up with a plan of action. At the end of the day however, we're still the ones that have to execute the plan. When you start dealing with a house as old as ours, even the engineers start scratching their heads. Things aren't as black and white as they are we new platform construction. You have to identify creative ways to accomplish even the simplest of tasks, so past experience may not be applicable.

Here's some food for thought. We called some of the most experienced builders in the area out to look at projects around the house. You know what they all had in common? They all looked at the house and scratched their heads. Why? Because their experience ends at new construction techniques. The old framing techniques and materials had them perplexed. In this particular case (and thanks to months of research) I was more knowledgeable than guys who had been in the industry for 20+ years. Not bad for a DIY person.

All that said, I'll talk to our engineer again about the best way to anchor the sill plates to the foundation. Every time I talk to the guy it costs me, so I was hoping to get some general ideas here first. I'll address the sill plate with him, but my original question was about the wall framing. Can we please get back on that topic?
Pittsville is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2012, 01:02 PM   #9
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Phoenix AZ
Posts: 452
Default

Re-Studding Old Wall


Okay Pittsville. First I would like to apologize for my ignorance, and me jumping to conclusions. Sounds like you have a plan, even though it isn't on paper, sounds like you, the inspectors, and the engineer, are on the same page. So it sounds like you are going to do the work, and anything that you are unsure of you will ask for advice, and possibly run it by the engineer if necessary. Great, I'm on board. One question though. I noticed you're in Maryland. Are you a Ravens fan??
CopperClad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2012, 01:12 PM   #10
Maryland
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Eastern Shore, MD
Posts: 385
Default

Re-Studding Old Wall


Colts all the way! Going to be another loooong season!
Pittsville is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2012, 01:24 PM   #11
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Phoenix AZ
Posts: 452
Default

Re-Studding Old Wall


Ha ! I'm a diehard Steelers fan , so if you were a Ravens fan that could've been a problem. Anyway you can draw exactly how your joist are notched on the drawing you made? That would help me understand a little more on how things are done and an appropriate course of action that would best fit your situation.
CopperClad is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to CopperClad For This Useful Post:
mae-ling (07-11-2012)
Old 07-11-2012, 05:06 PM   #12
Mod
 
kwikfishron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Kansas (NCK)
Posts: 7,177
Default

Re-Studding Old Wall


I bet you're glad you bought those poles there Pittsville.
__________________
A Picture Is Worth A Thousand Words
Especially In The DIY Chatroom
kwikfishron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2012, 05:25 PM   #13
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 513
Default

Re-Studding Old Wall


Can you build out (and up) the 4x8 and set the joists on top?
Evstarr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2012, 07:05 PM   #14
Maryland
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Eastern Shore, MD
Posts: 385
Default

Re-Studding Old Wall


Quote:
Originally Posted by kwikfishron View Post
I bet you're glad you bought those poles there Pittsville.
Alum-A-Pole. Best $3200 we ever spent!
Pittsville is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Pittsville For This Useful Post:
kwikfishron (07-11-2012)
Old 07-11-2012, 07:08 PM   #15
Maryland
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Eastern Shore, MD
Posts: 385
Default

Re-Studding Old Wall


Quote:
Originally Posted by CopperClad View Post
Ha ! I'm a diehard Steelers fan , so if you were a Ravens fan that could've been a problem. Anyway you can draw exactly how your joist are notched on the drawing you made? That would help me understand a little more on how things are done and an appropriate course of action that would best fit your situation.
I'll try to draw it up in Sketchup tonight. Would be easier to understand in 3D I think. I would take photos, but I don't have enough of the siding/plaster removed to get a good viewing angle.

Pittsville is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Removing a portion of a load bearing wall WFCC Carpentry 3 09-17-2011 06:17 PM
Retaining wall problem FMS Landscaping & Lawn Care 6 07-04-2011 06:42 PM
Removing a wall with no ceiling joist above it i77ac_10 Building & Construction 2 01-05-2011 12:30 PM
Atlantic-need your opinion on markd's comments about my vapor barrier? yummy mummy Building & Construction 11 03-07-2007 09:47 AM
Load Bearing Wall? Traybae Building & Construction 1 11-05-2006 01:01 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.