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Old 11-24-2013, 10:33 PM   #151
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Re: old buildings


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They, like the other's have left mainly due to high labor costs plus worker's comp, vacation, SS and insurance along with benefits.
When they can hire workers in Afcrapistan to work for $2 a day and no benefits they are happy to move their production overseas.

Coal is one of the dirtiest pollution sources there is, that's why China has a massive SMOG problem in Beijing and other big cities- they burn all that coal and other stuff and the media shows this thick grey crud hanging in the air with everyone having to wear surgical masks when they go outdoors.
The planet is like a sealed fishtank, nothing escapes into space, the pollution, toxins and chemicals all stay here like one big churning toilet bowl, we can't continue as we have been.

Could be worse, In Norway the price of a gallon of gas is $9.97

Some other average prices;

Canada $5.56 per gallon
France $8.29 per gallon
Turkey $9.96 per gallon
Saudi Arabia $0.76 per gallon
Iran $0.04 per gallon
UK $7.88
Venezuela $0.08 per gallon
Italy $8.84

I totally disagree on wind turbines, at the moment 1/3 of the electric in the state of Iowa is being generated by non polluting, always produced wind turbines now and the number is increasing rapidly, that is why Google built a huge server farm here after seeing the electric costs are so cheap, I pay about 6-1/2 cents a kwh.

August 2013:

Hundreds of new MidAmerican Energy wind turbines will be sprouting up in five Iowa counties soon as part of a $1.9 billion project that will generate up to 1,050 megawatts of power in Iowa by 2015, Gov. Terry Branstad said Monday.

Branstad said the project – the largest economic development investment in state history — will create about 460 construction jobs over two years with an estimated payroll of $30 million and 48 permanent jobs with a $2.4 million payment, and an overall economic impact for Iowa that includes about $360 million in additional property tax revenue for local governments over the next 30 years, as well as payments of up to $3.2 million annually to farmers for the use of their land.

Since 2004, MidAmerican has installed 1,267 wind turbines in Iowa representing a total investment of about $4 billion and making it the largest rate-regulated utility owner of wind generation in the United States.

The electric generation capability for MidAmerican Energy will comprise about 39 percent wind, 33 percent coal, 18 percent natural gas, 6 percent nuclear, and 4 percent other by July 2016.
This website really isn't the place for this type of discussion, however I will throw in a little bit more of my two cents. The media is all liberal, and they love to show things that get environmentalists going. I am aware of the smog problem in China, but I am also aware of all of the coal miners that will be loosing out on work over here from very tight restrictions that our lovely president is laying down. Modern coal plants are much cleaner than they used to be. The train used to go through town here twice a day, once with a full load of coal from the mines, and once with an empty load coming back. Thanks to our government, the train hasn't come through, ironically, since shortly after Obama came into office. Several local coal plants that can't meet nearly impossible restrictions are shutting down, costing job after job. Then, on top of the war on coal, this health care garbage is killing almost any full time job around. Look around, all positions hiring are part-time only, 28 hours a week. Concidence?


Last edited by mt999999; 11-24-2013 at 11:20 PM.
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Old 11-24-2013, 11:10 PM   #152
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Re: old buildings


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The attic is not big enough or having access to it larger than a 15" square hatch in the bathroom over the sink it is useless for storage anyway.
This is why replacing old single paned doublehung wood windows with double paned modern windows makes a difference.


My furnace, a Lenox conservator G11E came from my work place around 2001 when they replaced all the perfectly good working furnaces with the 92% high efficiency units along with all the lamp ballasts in an energy bill cost cutting reduction plan.
After they replaced the furnaces with new "Dependable 92s" they had a heat exchanger crack on one, and at least a couple of service calls for ignitor related problems.
I don't think the difference between 85% and 92% on a 100,000 BTU furnace is worth the cost of replacing it just to save at best a claimed 7%.

What was hilarious is the installer tried to claim that the heat exchanger cracked because the filter was "dirty", it was NOT dirty as in caked, they were changed WEEKLY, and if a slightly dirty filter you can see light through is all it takes to crack the heat exchanger- the major part of the furnace then the design STINKS, there should be an airflow sensor that shuts it off if it's that critical.

In fact to his face in front of my foreman the day he tried to pull that garbage on us I told him just what I thought about the lousy design and the warrantee scam- they warrantee the heat exchanger for x years but disclaim it if filters are not changed frequently enough, now tell me HOW someone can PROVE they changed filters enough??? WHo but the manufacturer determines how frequent, "frequent" is?

I told him it's a scam to cover up a crappy furnace design and a heat exchanger that was made too thin, and shoddy manufacturing if it even WAS cracked. I never saw a crack in it, he never showed it to me, and the furnace with the alledged crack in it has still been in use since 2001.

I brought home the furnace that served the front offices and installed it in the area I dug out under the kitchen for a utility room.
It's run perfectly and flawlessly with nothing more than filter changes and periodic vacuuming out since the day I installed it.
I believe it is 80% or 85% which is an improvement over the freestanding 65% gas heater that was here originally in the living room.
I had to run all the ducts and it was a major chore due to the layout of the house and the low ceiling in the basement but I managed to get heat to each room and a couple of returns.


Gas dryers are more expensive because of the safety devices and regulator inside, but gas dries the clothes a lot faster, and gas stves start heating instantly. I've always had both.

This is why you replace old lines, and replace old flexible copper tubing with 1/2" threaded PIPE, threaded pipe is what they always used in New York City buildings, it's strong, durable.
All of my gas piping is threaded black iron pipe.


Gas meters have seals and a rubber diaphragm in them and can leak, they also have a vent on them that can release gas odors, just seems like a poor idea to have one indoors, I would never have one installed indoors.


Should not be a lot of costs, this isn't a $250,000 house and you aren't getting a 30 year mortgage, you will be paying a pro-rated property tax and various recording/county fees.

For the 2 bedroom farmhouse, full basement on 1/2 acre they wanted $12,500 I offered $7,900 and they immediately accepted it, the house needed a lot of work. They did not go thru a broker just a sign on the front lawn and having a new baby they moved in with the woman's father and needed the money sooner than later.
I did not get a traditional mortgage with escrow, it was a "commercial loan" around 7% and I did not have to do the escrow, points etc and paid the taxes separately myself as I do on my building.
I had put $1500 down, the closing costs were low.

Attic hatch in the place I'm buying is barely 15-16 inches wide, just the size to fit it inbetween the rafters. Not to mention the slope of the roof above it, getting into the attic is a real bear. I've done it, and don't intend on doing it again until the time comes to pull the old R-11 and then feed up one batt of R-30 at a time. Maybe I'll find something good under the batts... but not likely. I don't like blown-in because I have heard many a story about people getting blown-in in walls of their house, and moisture that is designed to bleed through the plaster and lathe and dissappate into the empty wall cavities slowly soaks through the blown-in, causing it to get heavy and wet, and sag in the walls. Eventually it is just a wet mass in the bottoms of the walls causing plaster damage, and wooden siding rot outside. So people then make a vapor barrier by slaping vinyl siding over the outside of their house, and this compounds the problem by keeping moisture trapped in the walls, which then attracts termites to their rotting walls.

My parent's house has all casements, new and old. Funny thing is that the highest quality wooden Andersen windows with the vinyl or aluminum wrap on the outside, 30 some years after installation, are not only hideous on the outside from fading and and weathering, but the built-in weatherstripping is all but completely missing and dry-rotted, several of the windows don't open from stripped gears in the opening mechanisms, and many of the double panes' seals have been breached, resulting in fog between the panes of glass which makes the windows impossible to see out of, while killing the efficiency. Some investment! Boy, I'd hate to see how the cheap ones hold up! Let me tell you that our remaining original casements from the late 1920's have held up so much better than these so called high quality replacements. Just keep a coat of paint on them, and they are set to go for another century. I need to put new weatherstripping on the old windows, and I need to get the original wooden storm windows in to stop some of the drafts. Other drafts are caused from uninsulatable masonary walls where there are large holes in the plaster from previous water damage that my stepdad decided he doesn't need to fix.

I like to line-dry my clothes personally. Saves on energy bills, and keeps the clothes from wearing as fast. Can't forget all of the lint that the dryers pull out of clothes. I only use ours for air fluffing clothes in the summer. Before I had a full time job, I even line dryed and air fluffed all of my clothes in the winter in our cellar. Just let 'em hang over night and they will be fine. I just don't have time for such things now. I barely have time in the summer to line dry clothes outside anymore. We have a stove with a gas range and an electric convection oven at the moment. It is an interesting combination. I certainly prefer an electric oven over a gas oven. My grandmother's gas oven must have scarred me. You had to crawl inside with a match to light it, and she always made me do it for her. Gas lines in this house are threaded black iron, with a flexible copper line going to the gas stove in the cellar. Lines must just be old. The line around the furnace seems in decent condition, however. I don't know if they will move the meter outside. I just don't want to pay to have it done!

Last edited by mt999999; 11-24-2013 at 11:24 PM.
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Old 11-24-2013, 11:39 PM   #153
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Re: old buildings


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The media is all liberal, and they love to show things that get environmentalists going
Yeah, the "liberal" media is behind all the evil, if you say so...
Ok now that I know what "groups" you've obviously lumped me in with as a result of your comments I think I'm done with this thread and you as well, good luck with your house you'll need it!

Last edited by RWolff; 11-25-2013 at 12:22 AM.
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Old 11-26-2013, 06:57 PM   #154
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Re: old buildings


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Yeah, the "liberal" media is behind all the evil, if you say so...
Ok now that I know what "groups" you've obviously lumped me in with as a result of your comments I think I'm done with this thread and you as well, good luck with your house you'll need it!
Ouch! This is why I don't like discussing politics... I should have kept my big mouth shut. My comment was not meant to be a personal attack, and I had no intentions on causing any harm, nor did I intend that you were an evironmentalist on some kind of rant, that was totally unrealated and coincidental. I am truly sorry that I offended you. It would be ashame to end such a good thread with the people who were following and reading the comments, but if you are still done with this thread, and "me", so be it. But again, I apologize, and I am sorry that I offended you.

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Old 01-05-2014, 03:51 PM   #155
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Re: old buildings


THIS is why those old single pane windows will NEVER match the dual pane argon filled modern ones, I'm sitting here as comfortable as can be, not a particle of frost on any of my windows and it's a pleasant 72 degrees.
Had I still had the old single panel junk they would all right now be covered with a LAYER of ice/frost on the INSIDE and I would be sitting here freezing my butt off even with a space heater behind my chair as happened every winter before I replaced the damn windows.

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Old 01-05-2014, 06:54 PM   #156
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Re: old buildings


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THIS is why those old single pane windows will NEVER match the dual pane argon filled modern ones, I'm sitting here as comfortable as can be, not a particle of frost on any of my windows and it's a pleasant 72 degrees.
Had I still had the old single panel junk they would all right now be covered with a LAYER of ice/frost on the INSIDE and I would be sitting here freezing my butt off even with a space heater behind my chair as happened every winter before I replaced the damn windows.
If you choose replacement windows, that is up to you. I look at it from the historical standpoint, where most old, original wooden windows add beauty and charm to the structure, inside and out. I feel that vinyl replacements look "cold and bleak", just plain square boxes. But, each to his own I suppose. One must make the choice between beauty and character, or saving some money. Perhaps they make you more comfortable, and that is fine. Aside from the maintence, one can paint wooden windows any color, adding a personal touch to a home. I do like painting. Some may not like painting, especially on a rental, and that is a reason why people would replace windows. Perhaps some people prefer the look of vinyl, it's also about personal taste. I prefer the look of original windows.

Below are a few pictures of my house I took on New Years day, while I was photographing progress inside for friends and family. Even though the recently-painted upstairs windows are still more bland-looking, the reason that I have not replaced them is mainly based on money. I agree there is nothing much special about them, and I honestly considered replacing them considering the very large amount of decay and neglect they had faced. But, replacement Windows are so expensive, and generally only take up 10% of home energy loss. A much more effective method would be to caulk gaps and cracks, and insulate, which add up to nearly 90% of energy loss (based on studies I have looked into). I have two current pictures of the kitchen below, and a picture of a cabinet layout that I designed. Despite being a common style, I like the two-over-two windows, and they are in nicer shape than any other windows in the house. However, they may have to be replaced (or somehow shortened with new glass added) to make the cabinets work.

Now, the porch windows, on the other hand, are more unique 4-over-1 style windows. While they are not anything fancy, they do have character, and the sun porch is not likely to be heated in the winter as a side note. You can see a close-up on damage to the far-left front window. A couple other front porch windows are like this, with less damage. However, since I do not intend on making the front porch windows functional (only the side porch windows), I can easily repair and paint this. I have seen some very beautiful, well-maintained and unique diamond-shaped, almost leaded-glass looking (wood mutton dividers) upper windows sashes before. I wish I had taken a picture of those windows, but I still know where the building is in Pittsburgh. However, I could imagine how painful the glazing process must be with all those curved muttons on the upper sashes, not to mention getting replacement curved glass cut to shape, or even measured to be cut.

In conclusion, new windows may be more efficient, but also have a large base cost, and will need replaced, likely by the time they are paid off. To me, even if some savings are achieved, the cost of loosing such beautiful architectural details could never be made up. I feel the old windows are priceless! Old windows are more maintence, but It's a decision any homeowner will have to make. I still feel that most old original wooden windows are worth saving, unless they are totally trashed or their current use is not practical (very tall windows barring the installation of kitchen cabinets or the like). If you are happy and more comfortable with your replacement windows, I wish you all the best. A very Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you as well!
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Re: old buildings-kitchen-1.jpg  

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Old 01-18-2014, 10:37 PM   #157
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Re: old buildings


Caulk helps cut actual drafts but does absolutely nothing to stop the convection process cold surfaces generate:

Freezing from Window Cold Air Convection

Quote:
We moved into the house 2.5 years ago. We've noticed a "draft" in this room during the winter. Going nutso over this "Draft" , I pulled all 8 recessed light cans and stuffed R-13 insulation in front and behind the Cans...leaving some space of course. I also plugged up all the holes under the Direct Vent Fireplace where air was coming in. I then caulked the two HVAC vents I have. I also pulled all the swtichplates and put in those insulation foam pads behind the switch plates.

As I was caulking the small crevices around the vent boots, I noticed that my problem was not "leaky" air spaces, but cold air convection coming off the windows and making my room "feel" drafty.

cold windows

You said CONVECTION problem. That means that the glass is transferring cold from the outside to the inside.

Quote:
Why Single-Pane Windows Feel Drafty

July 6, 2013

We hear a lot that windows are drafty, and sometimes they really are: Every now and then the sashes in old wood windows are so loose that they easily rock back and forth, and these windows can really leak.



Most of the time, though, once we crank up the blower door to measure and detect air leakage, even old single-pane wood windows don’t leak all that much. Most leak some around the pulleys and where the two sashes meet, but decades of old paint do a pretty good job of sealing other areas.


“Oh, yeah?” you say? “Then why do I feel so cold sitting in front of the windows? I mean, I FEEL the draft.”


Here’s what’s up: First, you may well be feeling a draft. Aside from the possibility that the windows really are leaky, it’s certain that the cold window surface is causing air movement. Remember the lesson from physics: Cold air sinks. On a cold day, the cold pane of glass cools down the air immediately next to it, which in turn sinks. Once away from the window, the air heats up again and rises. And this process continues in what's called a convection loop. Even this relatively slight movement of air can create discomfort.


Even if the temperature of the air around you is comfortable, you feel a chill. It’s the opposite of sitting in the sun or under a heater in an outdoor café.
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Old 01-19-2014, 12:35 AM   #158
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Re: old buildings


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Caulk helps cut actual drafts but does absolutely nothing to stop the convection process cold surfaces generate.
I understand the convection process, but honestly, I feel the same convection on all of our late 70's dual-pane windows, french doors and all, that I feel in the original 1920's french doors in my bedroom, with the storm windows up. Not to mention how freezing cold those 70's steel doors get! Even with a pine core, you can't beat a solid-wood door. In my bedroom, I just close the thick curtains at night. Windows insulated, problem solved! Plastic works too, but it's a little trashy. The "curtain method" works best for me.

I've gone around and caulked every gap in crack in our house, but the fact that the attic only has R-19, the masonary walls have only an inch of dead air space between the brick and the plaster (no insulation possible), we have two gas furnaces, a boiler in the 3-story garage, with a mother-in-law suite on top (with only pointless R-11 on the attic ceiling, none on the attic floor), 2 gas water heaters, all of those cold double and single pane windows, several skylights... point is, our gas bill was a whopping $800 last month, no kidding! Thank God I don't have to pay it...

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