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Old 11-16-2013, 10:17 PM   #136
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Re: old buildings


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Originally Posted by mt999999 View Post
Currently, I don't have cash on hand for a down payment. Out of high school in May I had no credit, but I did get a $10,000 loan for a car. My mom's name is on the title, I guess I co-signed. However that works, we did it so that I would get some credit to my name. I make all of the payments since we have bought it, but that is only a couple of months.
That's a good start, the other issue is the bank will see that you already HAVE a recent $10k loan outstanding and that becomes a negative in some ways- they look at total debt, income etc. Having one loan and applying for another is like having several credit cards which is also a negative usually.
Car loans are usually ridiculously easy to get mainly because the car will have value and even if it's destroyed in a crash it's insured and the bank or finance company are not going to lose out.
It differs with a deteriorated house like this one, it has no resale value and really about the only value there- is the land it sits on is likely to be worth at least what you are paying for the place.
Look up the assessed value of the property to see what the county has figured the lot is worth, the assessed value should be broken down into land, and then buildings/structures, that will give you a better idea. The bank will almost certainly not lend more than the land is worth, it's just not enough value or profit to bother with a mortgage loan on a property a house sits on in this condition.
Your best bet is going thru mom/dad similar to how you did the car loan, they may agree to it if you come up with the cash to pay all the fees involved to get the loan, it shouldn't be very much but there would be some fees.

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I haven't had any late, but I don't know what a few months of payments will even add up to.
I can tell you that the amount you paid in a few months has hardly reduced the loan principal by much at all, I don't know how it is with car loans but with mortgage loans and personal loans you are mostly paying down the interest first for the first year or something like that.

Quote:
I could try to get one of my parents to co-sign for me. I'm not making enough at my current job to handle utilities, but I'm looking for a job closer.
The income angle is going to be a big issue, if you don't have enough to cover utilities how will you cover them in a few months, PLUS the payments on $10,000 loan too?
Even if you use no gas and electric there are always minimum meter charges for the service each month, it might be $10-$15 for the gas and maybe that amount for the electric, that means $20-$30 a month even if you use nothing at all, they will certainly also require some amount as a deposit, it might be $100 or some amount based on average billing of service used by the previous owner when it was occupied.


Quote:
I don't think I mentioned it, but at the moment, I don't currently "own" the house. I have an agreement worked out with the pastor, but I probably ought to get something on paper. He said a thousand dollars cash was fine in the spring.
Whatever works for them, works, they did get the place for free and tax-free, so it's not like they can complain!

Quote:
I have been setting a small amount of money out of every pay to be on track to having a thousand dollars cash in April.
One thing you might not have noticed, 4 times a year, about every third month you get a 5th payday that month in place of the usual 4, the months it happens depends on the day of the week you get paid, so if you look at the callendar you'll see which months have 5 paydays and since most bills and the like are monthly, that
s almost getting one extra paycheck every 3 months, plan on setting a large chunk of that aside.

Quote:
I figure instead of giving him that thousand dollars, I could use it as a down payment on the $10,000, and just give him a thousand dollars out of the loan. Wouldn't that work?
I couldn't say, it depends, there will be some fees for the loan and they may require collateral or something else from your parents. A second mortgage on their house for example would almost certainly cause the bank to want an apprasal or some such, credit check etc and there's fees involved with all of that, it could amount to a few hundred dollars or more in fees and out of $1,000 a few hundred dollars doesn't leave a whole lot left over.

Here's a video I was watching last night, the Shea show I mentioned before, this guy with the little business in Detroit finding and renovating junker and foreclosed houses for investors, a woman bought this really cute house for $1500, he shows the inside and largely downtrods it. The front door has been gone for a couple of years as google street view shows, you might watch his videos because he covers a lot of things about buying and fixing up old junker houses and foreclosed houses, costs and things like that too;



He has another clip showing 7 houses someone bought on Ebay for $5,000 sight unseen! every one of them is basically ready for the bulldozer- roofs caved in, windows gone, stripped out, brick entry fallen down etc.;


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Old 11-17-2013, 10:50 AM   #137
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Re: old buildings


The property is assessed at $1,400 Land Value, and $8,900 "Improvements", for a total of $10,300 property value. I checked these out at the courthouse a few months ago just to be sure no taxes were due, and that there were no leins on the property. The title came back clear. I also checked to ensure that it was not condemned at our local city hall. The man said it used to be, but not any more. But they said an order was sent a year ago to have the deck repaired or torn-down. Good thing they don't know about the foundation wall! It's not a load-bearing wall, so I am wondering if it would be easier to put up mesh and have a cement truck pour a concrete wall in place. Cement sidewalk on that side of the house needs re-done as well.

http://www.columbianacntyauditor.org...907DEF7E999838

The gas minimum around here is $20 with the furnace off, but the house has a gas water heater. Water/Sewage minimum is $50, but that includes trash pick-up and recycling. Even with 9 people using water at our house (mother-in-law suite above the garage), paired with several leaky faucets, the maximum monthly bill is $65-70. Some other people I know in the area pay less than $60 monthly with a family of four people. Don't know the electric minimum, but I found several electric bills while the house was sitting empty that weren't more than 4 or 5 dollars a piece, stating transmission fee and things like that. Some of the bills were even zero dollars, but he might have had money on the account. Before I really jump on it, I know I need to secure a better job, although, I could handle the minimums right now. What I can't handle is $150 or whatever gas bill in the winter.

If the pastor of the church will go along with it, I'm hoping to "donate" a thousand dollars to the church (tax deductable), and they will sign over the deed tax free. Saves a couple bucks that way! Couldn't be more than $50 to notarize a quit-claim form and have it registered with the county recorder. The church does have a small amount invested. Three years of property taxes, and they did build a new support wall on the back of the property, which took voulenteers and time, plus lumber. They won't be making much on this deal, but if they wait any longer, the place will have to be torn down, plus more years of property taxes. I'm sure the guy just wants the place out of his hair at this point.

Last edited by mt999999; 11-17-2013 at 11:13 AM.
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Old 11-17-2013, 11:31 AM   #138
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Re: old buildings


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Originally Posted by mt999999 View Post
The property is assessed at $1,400 Land Value, and $8,900 "Improvements", for a total of $10,300 property value
I would pretty write off the "improvements" portion since repairs would cost more than the house is assessed at, so you know it's worth at least the $1400 for the land.

Quote:
so I am wondering if it would be easier to put up mesh and have a cement truck pour a concrete wall in place. Cement sidewalk on that side of the house needs re-done as well.
Concrete delivery typically has a minimum charge, last I heard it was a certain amount of concrete plus the delivery charge, for some reason I'm thinking $800.
You'd be probably better off mixing it yourself like I did, or buy/rent a portable electric concrete mixer, I bought mine from Grizzley for something like $200 a number of years ago and I've used it a LOT for foundation and slab work.
The sidewalk may be CITY responsibility to repair/maintain, you should not touch the sidewalk at all without finding out first.


Quote:
The gas minimum around here is $20 with the furnace off, but the house has a gas water heater. Water/Sewage minimum is $50,
Don't know the electric minimum,
The electric minimum is likely to be around what the gas is, $15-$20

Quote:
Before I really jump on it, I know I need to secure a better job, although, I could handle the minimums right now. What I can't handle is $150 or whatever gas bill in the winter.
Of course, and that house likely is not well insulated too.
A new job is another one of the bank negatives for loans and mortgages, they like to see a long term thing.

Quote:
If the pastor of the church will go along with it, I'm hoping to "donate" a thousand dollars to the church (tax deductable), and they will sign over the deed tax free. Saves a couple bucks that way! Couldn't be more than $50 to notarize a quit-claim form and have it registered with the county recorder.
I would really advise you to run this transaction through an attorney to make sure everything is in order for sure and guaranteed to be. I think my attorney's fee was $135 to handle my building transaction, do the title and lien search and all the rest needed. I don't remember if he did the county recorder stuff or the real estate agent did, but between the two of them they did everything that was required, and there was loads of forms and paperwork and I was glad to let them deal with all that garbage.

My lawyer mailed me as well as the bank documents and a letter explaining what he checked, the results, and that he guaranteed there were no liens, clear title etc etc.

Since you are going through an agent all of this paperwork, abstract and records checking and filing will have to be done by you, preferably with a lawyer. There are a lot of things the lawyer and an agent do behind the scenes you don't see that if you do it yourself and you overlook some important detail it can come back later and bite you.
Spend the money and have a local lawyer involved in checking the property and filing any paperwork and forms required by the county to do the transfer.

That url only goes to their main page.
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Last edited by RWolff; 11-17-2013 at 11:35 AM.
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Old 11-18-2013, 12:05 AM   #139
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Re: old buildings


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Originally Posted by RWolff View Post
I would pretty write off the "improvements" portion since repairs would cost more than the house is assessed at, so you know it's worth at least the $1400 for the land.

Concrete delivery typically has a minimum charge, last I heard it was a certain amount of concrete plus the delivery charge, for some reason I'm thinking $800.
You'd be probably better off mixing it yourself like I did, or buy/rent a portable electric concrete mixer, I bought mine from Grizzley for something like $200 a number of years ago and I've used it a LOT for foundation and slab work.
The sidewalk may be CITY responsibility to repair/maintain, you should not touch the sidewalk at all without finding out first.


The electric minimum is likely to be around what the gas is, $15-$20

Of course, and that house likely is not well insulated too.
A new job is another one of the bank negatives for loans and mortgages, they like to see a long term thing.

I would really advise you to run this transaction through an attorney to make sure everything is in order for sure and guaranteed to be. I think my attorney's fee was $135 to handle my building transaction, do the title and lien search and all the rest needed. I don't remember if he did the county recorder stuff or the real estate agent did, but between the two of them they did everything that was required, and there was loads of forms and paperwork and I was glad to let them deal with all that garbage.

My lawyer mailed me as well as the bank documents and a letter explaining what he checked, the results, and that he guaranteed there were no liens, clear title etc etc.

Since you are going through an agent all of this paperwork, abstract and records checking and filing will have to be done by you, preferably with a lawyer. There are a lot of things the lawyer and an agent do behind the scenes you don't see that if you do it yourself and you overlook some important detail it can come back later and bite you.
Spend the money and have a local lawyer involved in checking the property and filing any paperwork and forms required by the county to do the transfer.

That url only goes to their main page.
I might rent a mixer, I've used one before. Just seemed a bit inadequate for such a large project. The sidewalk is not the front sidewalk, but one that goes along the side of the house, entirely on my property. I'm sure they have nothing to do with it. Some walls were insulated, some weren't. I plan on putting up something in the kitchen and bathroom walls that I dropped, and R-30 in the attic. Currently, the main and kitchen attic are insulated with R-11, but that seems a little inadequate. It will do for now, but it will eventually need replaced with R-30... I think that's the new standard for attics.

If the property was transferred for zero dollars with a quit-claim deed, I thought that would avoid the annoying paper work. It's not through a real estate agent. It's been off of the market for quite some time now. I was hoping just to get it signed over and avoid all the crap. I assumed that a lawyer's fee would be alot more than $135, so I may just look into that. I forgot that stupid website always takes you back to the main page. If you want to see the page, just go back to the link, click on "search by parcle number". The parcle number is: "37-02299.000". By the way, I posted in the concrete and block section of the site if you want to chime in, link below.

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Old 11-18-2013, 12:25 AM   #140
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Re: old buildings


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I might rent a mixer, I've used one before. Just seemed a bit inadequate for such a large project.
You'd be surprised, they will mix up about a wheel barrow's worth at a time, and all you have to do is shovel the portland and sand in, add water and it does the rest, they could keep two men busy.

Quote:
and R-30 in the attic. Currently, the main and kitchen attic are insulated with R-11, but that seems a little inadequate. It will do for now, but it will eventually need replaced with R-30... I think that's the new standard for attics.
More is always better, I have R-100 in my attic and R-24 in the walls from what I've calculated. I keep the thermostat set the same all winter at 70.


Quote:
If the property was transferred for zero dollars with a quit-claim deed, I thought that would avoid the annoying paper work. It's not through a real estate agent. It's been off of the market for quite some time now.
I realise it's not thru an agent, it doesn't matter if it's zero dollars, this is REAL ESTATE, not used furniture someone can simply pass along to you free of sales tax or something, even if a family member gifts the property for free to another family member it still has to go thru all the customary and normal paperwork, title, deed etc because it's legal real estate.

Quote:
I was hoping just to get it signed over and avoid all the crap. I assumed that a lawyer's fee would be alot more than $135, so I may just look into that.
Real estate transfers are real standard fare, there's rarely anything unique or difficult for a lawyer to do who normally does real estate related legal transactions.

Attorneys normally charge by the hour, at rates ranging from $150 to $350. You may also find attorneys who charge flat fees for specific services, such as preparing real estate closing documents. On your transaction it should not take long since there's no mortgage, agent, repairs that you expect the seller to do etc.

Just some FYI's, some of which won't apply to your purchase:

The buyer usually pays for the mortgage fees – application, origination points, discount points, mortgage insurance, credit report, mortgage broker fee. Lenders don’t normally charge all of these fees for every transaction.

Title insurance protects against past defects in title – forged documents, undiscovered heirs, undisclosed liens.
There are two different policies usually issued at the same time. One’s a lender’s policy that’s mandatory if you're receiving a mortgage. The second is the optional, but highly recommended, homeowner’s policy. Local customs affect who pays, but buyers and sellers often negotiate title insurance payment. The policy typically costs less than 1 percent of the purchase price of the home.

Document recording fees are charged for the deed, and the mortgage or deed of trust. The state may also assess transfer fees on new and assumed mortgages – typically paid by the borrower – and on the deed, paid by the seller.
Lenders require homeowner’s hazard insurance. Additional flood, wind or earthquake coverage may also be mandatory, depending on the location of the property.

Lenders require a property appraisal that the buyer normally pays at the time of the inspection.


Quote:
I forgot that stupid website always takes you back to the main page. If you want to see the page, just go back to the link, click on "search by parcle number". The parcle number is: "37-02299.000". By the way, I posted in the concrete and block section of the site if you want to chime in, link below.
I'll take a look.
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Old 11-19-2013, 10:38 PM   #141
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Re: old buildings


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You'd be surprised, they will mix up about a wheel barrow's worth at a time, and all you have to do is shovel the portland and sand in, add water and it does the rest, they could keep two men busy.

More is always better, I have R-100 in my attic and R-24 in the walls from what I've calculated. I keep the thermostat set the same all winter at 70.

I realise it's not thru an agent, it doesn't matter if it's zero dollars, this is REAL ESTATE, not used furniture someone can simply pass along to you free of sales tax or something, even if a family member gifts the property for free to another family member it still has to go thru all the customary and normal paperwork, title, deed etc because it's legal real estate.

Real estate transfers are real standard fare, there's rarely anything unique or difficult for a lawyer to do who normally does real estate related legal transactions.

Attorneys normally charge by the hour, at rates ranging from $150 to $350. You may also find attorneys who charge flat fees for specific services, such as preparing real estate closing documents. On your transaction it should not take long since there's no mortgage, agent, repairs that you expect the seller to do etc.

Just some FYI's, some of which won't apply to your purchase:

The buyer usually pays for the mortgage fees – application, origination points, discount points, mortgage insurance, credit report, mortgage broker fee. Lenders don’t normally charge all of these fees for every transaction.

Title insurance protects against past defects in title – forged documents, undiscovered heirs, undisclosed liens.
There are two different policies usually issued at the same time. One’s a lender’s policy that’s mandatory if you're receiving a mortgage. The second is the optional, but highly recommended, homeowner’s policy. Local customs affect who pays, but buyers and sellers often negotiate title insurance payment. The policy typically costs less than 1 percent of the purchase price of the home.

Document recording fees are charged for the deed, and the mortgage or deed of trust. The state may also assess transfer fees on new and assumed mortgages – typically paid by the borrower – and on the deed, paid by the seller.
Lenders require homeowner’s hazard insurance. Additional flood, wind or earthquake coverage may also be mandatory, depending on the location of the property.

Lenders require a property appraisal that the buyer normally pays at the time of the inspection.

I'll take a look.
Yes, I am familiar with the mixers from work. Usually takes a mixer and two of us to do a sidewalk. Asking around at work, I have heard horror stories of molds that were very well sured-up for pouring concrete walls, but the molds still buckled and broke under the weight. I am thinking I will pour a 16 in. wide by 10 in. deep footer with rebar, and pour maybe 4 inches of concrete for the rotted sections of wooden flooring around the perimeter to get a smooth concrete floor all around. I'll likely just build a block wall up from there, and I'd like to get a couple glass block windows installed there as well.

Boy, that sure is alot of insulation! Furnace in our house is usually set to 68, and the heating bill isn't pretty. $300-400 monthly in winter usually, sometimes more. However, we have R-19 at best in the attic, 3 floors to heat, and likely uninsulated masonary walls. Not to mention 2 forced-air gas furnaces in the main house and a gas boiler for the garage and mother-in-law suite. Just wondering -- what do you pay in the cold months for gas? Assuming you have a gas furnace, that is. I don't want to spend a fortune on insulation, so at the moment, I think I'll go with R-30 for the attic, and use some R-11 in the kitchen and bathroom walls.

Well, I guess I'll need to do more homework on real estate. I was told that one could transfer property with a quit-claim deed, just without title insurance, and avoid any extra paperwork or closing costs. It's still new to me at the moment. I'll have to talk with the pastor and ask what he had to go through when the place was donated to get a better idea. What do you figure the closing cost would be on a place that was "sold" for free or donated? I have heard that it is usually a couple thousand dollars, but I was hoping it would be significantly less in a situation such as this.
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Old 11-20-2013, 12:38 AM   #142
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Re: old buildings


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Boy, that sure is alot of insulation! Furnace in our house is usually set to 68, and the heating bill isn't pretty. $300-400 monthly in winter usually, sometimes more.
I added more cellulose blown in insulation to what was already there, it's waist-high in the attic as a result.


Quote:
what do you pay in the cold months for gas? Assuming you have a gas furnace, that is. I don't want to spend a fortune on insulation, so at the moment, I think I'll go with R-30 for the attic, and use some R-11 in the kitchen and bathroom walls.
Yes I have gas furnace, water heater and stove, I'm on the equalized payments plan so the monthly bills are pretty much predictably even all year, but here's the use in therms (100,000 BTU) for heat, hot water and cooking all combined. These amounts include the monthly meter fee which I think was $10 or $12;



And billing amount actual use;



I didn't add it up and divide by 12 but I once figured it's about $80/mo averaged ($900 a year) for all gas use. That's keeping the thermostat set about 70-71 deg F 24/7 all winter.


Quote:
Well, I guess I'll need to do more homework on real estate. I was told that one could transfer property with a quit-claim deed, just without title insurance, and avoid any extra paperwork or closing costs.
People give bad advice too, sure you CAN do it, just like you CAN drive your car along the edge of the water on a soft sandy beach but just because you can doesn't mean it's a hot idea.
Worst case scenario you buy real estate with no title insurance etc and spend tens of thousands of dollars and lots of time on renovations only to discover a certified letter in the mail informs you that you really don't own the property after all because of some problem with a previous transfer that was in error, a lien on the property, or an injury lawsuit that was never paid, or you discover there was an underground tank you didn't know about, lead, mercury, some toxic stuff on the property, an error in an easement that means your back yard actually belongs to the neighbor's property.
There's all kinds of really nasty things that can happen with real estate transactions and you DON'T want to learn about them after spending $25,000 in renovations and a couple of years of hard work only to lose it due to some stupid technicality with the title!

Get the transfer and paperwork done by a local attorney who deals with real estate, and get the title insurance or whatever the attorney suggests to protect YOUR behind.

Quote:
It's still new to me at the moment. I'll have to talk with the pastor and ask what he had to go through when the place was donated to get a better idea.
Donations to a church are a completely different ballgame, better talk to your parents if they bought their house and ask.

Quote:
What do you figure the closing cost would be on a place that was "sold" for free or donated? I have heard that it is usually a couple thousand dollars, but I was hoping it would be significantly less in a situation such as this.
It depends, it shouldn't be a few hundred bucks, my closing on my building was not much, a few filing fees that were like $15 or something each, my attorney's fee was around $135, title search, title insurance, I don't remember it being more than around $300 or so.
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Last edited by RWolff; 11-20-2013 at 01:06 AM.
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Old 11-20-2013, 11:09 AM   #143
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Re: old buildings


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I didn't add it up and divide by 12 but I once figured it's about $80/mo averaged ($900 a year) for all gas use. That's keeping the thermostat set about 70-71 deg F 24/7 all winter.
You're so fortunate in having all that shale gas over there! Our gas bill last winter quarter was £400 ($600?) and only a 4-bed house, and heating on only 18 hours!
They've recently found large reserves of shale gas not far from where I live, but the locals are up in arms and don't want it extracted!
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Old 11-20-2013, 02:47 PM   #144
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Re: old buildings


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You're so fortunate in having all that shale gas over there! Our gas bill last winter quarter was £400 ($600?) and only a 4-bed house, and heating on only 18 hours!
They've recently found large reserves of shale gas not far from where I live, but the locals are up in arms and don't want it extracted!
I don't know the source of our gas here in Iowa but looking at my bill for October, the gas portion breakdown has;

31 ccf (31 therms)

Basic service charge $10.00
Delivery charge 31 x 0.23567 $7.31
Pipeline transport charge 31 x 0.08350 $2.59
Gas supply charge 31 x 0.36253 $0.31
TOTAL: $31.45

The basic service charge of $10 taken out of that since it's charged whether you use the gas or not- means the actual gas used cost me $21.45 for 31 therms, I averaged using 1 therm per day.
Rounded out it looks like a therm is 67 cents with tax included but not the $10 service charge.

My furnace is about 100,000 BTU, I also forgot to mention I have a gas DRYER too, so the gas bill is for heat, hot water, cooking and drying all my weekly laundry.
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Old 11-24-2013, 10:58 AM   #145
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Re: old buildings


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I added more cellulose blown in insulation to what was already there, it's waist-high in the attic as a result.

Yes I have gas furnace, water heater and stove, I'm on the equalized payments plan so the monthly bills are pretty much predictably even all year, but here's the use in therms (100,000 BTU) for heat, hot water and cooking all combined. These amounts include the monthly meter fee which I think was $10 or $12;

And billing amount actual use;

I didn't add it up and divide by 12 but I once figured it's about $80/mo averaged ($900 a year) for all gas use. That's keeping the thermostat set about 70-71 deg F 24/7 all winter.

People give bad advice too, sure you CAN do it, just like you CAN drive your car along the edge of the water on a soft sandy beach but just because you can doesn't mean it's a hot idea.
Worst case scenario you buy real estate with no title insurance etc and spend tens of thousands of dollars and lots of time on renovations only to discover a certified letter in the mail informs you that you really don't own the property after all because of some problem with a previous transfer that was in error, a lien on the property, or an injury lawsuit that was never paid, or you discover there was an underground tank you didn't know about, lead, mercury, some toxic stuff on the property, an error in an easement that means your back yard actually belongs to the neighbor's property.
There's all kinds of really nasty things that can happen with real estate transactions and you DON'T want to learn about them after spending $25,000 in renovations and a couple of years of hard work only to lose it due to some stupid technicality with the title!

Get the transfer and paperwork done by a local attorney who deals with real estate, and get the title insurance or whatever the attorney suggests to protect YOUR behind.

Donations to a church are a completely different ballgame, better talk to your parents if they bought their house and ask.

It depends, it shouldn't be a few hundred bucks, my closing on my building was not much, a few filing fees that were like $15 or something each, my attorney's fee was around $135, title search, title insurance, I don't remember it being more than around $300 or so.
Waist-high insulation... holy cow! Must not be any room for storage. But, I bet your house is nice and cozy in the winter. Ours is drafty and cold in most spots. The heating system is designed for an old octupus furnace with a supply in the larger rooms, more downstairs than upstairs for rising heat. The only returns are at the bottom of the main staircase, typical for an old gravity-fed furnace. Currently there is an 80 percent gas furnace in place, but the ductwork hasn't been altered for a forced air furnace. As a result, my bedroom is usually uncomfortably hot in the winter, while surrounding rooms are too chilly. For the central A/C system in the summer, the ductwork is even less functional with its current design.

With all gas appliances and heating, I'd say that's a darn low bill. The house I'm buying is set up for a gas dryer, stove, heat, and water heater. I do intend on keeping a gas furnace and water heater, but I have no intention on keeping a gas stove or dryer. Gas dryers are more expensive, and they just seem strange to me. Same goes for gas stoves. I've grown up with all electric appliances, and as a result, I am not as comfortable cooking on a gas stove. Gas lines in this house snaked all the way around the cellar to a very old 50's stove in the cellar, and then up to the kitchen. It broke easily around the cellar stove with some tension applied to it, which was very disconcerting to me! Gas meter is inside the cellar for some reason. Furnace and water heater are next to the meter, so I plan on capping the line somewhere around there, and then running electric to the stove and dryer.

There are a couple of lawyers around town, none that I know personally. I'll have to ask around for fees. Guess I never gave most of that stuff any thought. If a lawyers fee for such a service is in the $100-200 range, It's certainly worth it. Atleast the closing fee is significantly less than I thought it would be. You paid around Seven thousand dollars for your house, correct? I do need to have a good talk with the pastor regardless, haven't talked to him in a month or so. I was going to drive out to his church for sunday service to meet with him afterward, but after realizing that it is a two hour drive, I decided to pass on it. I don't know how a church in the middle of the state got ahold of this property. East liverpool is on the far east side of Ohio.
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Old 11-24-2013, 11:02 AM   #146
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You're so fortunate in having all that shale gas over there! Our gas bill last winter quarter was £400 ($600?) and only a 4-bed house, and heating on only 18 hours!
They've recently found large reserves of shale gas not far from where I live, but the locals are up in arms and don't want it extracted!
I don't know if RWolff has Shale gas out in the midwest. I know where I live (Western Pennsylvania/Eastern Ohio) its booming for sure! My dad said it significantly decreased his gas bill a few years ago. Not only does it create so many new jobs (which we need with Obama killing the coal industry), but it lowers gas prices in the area. I'm not trying to turn this into a political debate, but it seems that only environmentalists are trying to shoot down the Shale people. It's a shame, because it really doesn't affect the environment any. Shame they won't extract it where you live!
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Old 11-24-2013, 11:22 AM   #147
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its booming for sure! My dad said it significantly decreased his gas bill a few years ago. Not only does it create so many new jobs (which we need with Obama killing the coal industry), but it lowers gas prices in the area.
Only jobs it creates is for highly skilled OIL & GAS FIELD workers, not "Jane" the waitress or "Joe" the stock broker and it will be the same for keystone- a few temporary jobs for those with skills and training to operate cats, dozers, weld and big machinery.
The Canadian oil is NOT for us, it is to use our dirty refineries to process it (and leave the pollution HERE) while they ship the oil overseas where people in China, Asia, and Europe have been paying the equiv of $8 a gallon for gasoline and are happy to get it and don't complain $3 is too high!

There is and never has been any gas shortage, we don't have enough STORAGE facilities for it nor incentives, they don't WANT the prices lower by building more capacity, same with the oil co's more supplies = lower prices = lower profits, TIGHT supplies and low capacity = higher prices and higher profits, it also translates into higher TAX revenue for the states.
When you look into the big picture it's easy to see the fraud and why supplies are always tight, no brand new refineries built in decades to increase capacity etc etc, they don't want prices low and supplies plentiful.
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Old 11-24-2013, 11:45 AM   #148
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Waist-high insulation... holy cow! Must not be any room for storage. But, I bet your house is nice and cozy in the winter. Ours is drafty and cold in most spots.


The attic is not big enough or having access to it larger than a 15" square hatch in the bathroom over the sink it is useless for storage anyway.
This is why replacing old single paned doublehung wood windows with double paned modern windows makes a difference.

Quote:
Currently there is an 80 percent gas furnace in place, but the ductwork hasn't been altered for a forced air furnace.


My furnace, a Lenox conservator G11E came from my work place around 2001 when they replaced all the perfectly good working furnaces with the 92% high efficiency units along with all the lamp ballasts in an energy bill cost cutting reduction plan.
After they replaced the furnaces with new "Dependable 92s" they had a heat exchanger crack on one, and at least a couple of service calls for ignitor related problems.
I don't think the difference between 85% and 92% on a 100,000 BTU furnace is worth the cost of replacing it just to save at best a claimed 7%.

What was hilarious is the installer tried to claim that the heat exchanger cracked because the filter was "dirty", it was NOT dirty as in caked, they were changed WEEKLY, and if a slightly dirty filter you can see light through is all it takes to crack the heat exchanger- the major part of the furnace then the design STINKS, there should be an airflow sensor that shuts it off if it's that critical.

In fact to his face in front of my foreman the day he tried to pull that garbage on us I told him just what I thought about the lousy design and the warrantee scam- they warrantee the heat exchanger for x years but disclaim it if filters are not changed frequently enough, now tell me HOW someone can PROVE they changed filters enough??? WHo but the manufacturer determines how frequent, "frequent" is?

I told him it's a scam to cover up a crappy furnace design and a heat exchanger that was made too thin, and shoddy manufacturing if it even WAS cracked. I never saw a crack in it, he never showed it to me, and the furnace with the alledged crack in it has still been in use since 2001.

I brought home the furnace that served the front offices and installed it in the area I dug out under the kitchen for a utility room.
It's run perfectly and flawlessly with nothing more than filter changes and periodic vacuuming out since the day I installed it.
I believe it is 80% or 85% which is an improvement over the freestanding 65% gas heater that was here originally in the living room.
I had to run all the ducts and it was a major chore due to the layout of the house and the low ceiling in the basement but I managed to get heat to each room and a couple of returns.


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Gas dryers are more expensive, and they just seem strange to me. Same goes for gas stoves. I've grown up with all electric appliances, and as a result, I am not as comfortable cooking on a gas stove.


Gas dryers are more expensive because of the safety devices and regulator inside, but gas dries the clothes a lot faster, and gas stves start heating instantly. I've always had both.

Quote:
Gas lines in this house snaked all the way around the cellar to a very old 50's stove in the cellar, and then up to the kitchen. It broke easily around the cellar stove with some tension applied to it, which was very disconcerting to me!
This is why you replace old lines, and replace old flexible copper tubing with 1/2" threaded PIPE, threaded pipe is what they always used in New York City buildings, it's strong, durable.
All of my gas piping is threaded black iron pipe.

Quote:

Gas meter is inside the cellar for some reason. Furnace and water heater are next to the meter,


Gas meters have seals and a rubber diaphragm in them and can leak, they also have a vent on them that can release gas odors, just seems like a poor idea to have one indoors, I would never have one installed indoors.

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There are a couple of lawyers around town, none that I know personally. I'll have to ask around for fees. Guess I never gave most of that stuff any thought. If a lawyers fee for such a service is in the $100-200 range, It's certainly worth it. At least the closing fee is significantly less than I thought it would be.


Should not be a lot of costs, this isn't a $250,000 house and you aren't getting a 30 year mortgage, you will be paying a pro-rated property tax and various recording/county fees.

Quote:

You paid around Seven thousand dollars for your house, correct?
For the 2 bedroom farmhouse, full basement on 1/2 acre they wanted $12,500 I offered $7,900 and they immediately accepted it, the house needed a lot of work. They did not go thru a broker just a sign on the front lawn and having a new baby they moved in with the woman's father and needed the money sooner than later.
I did not get a traditional mortgage with escrow, it was a "commercial loan" around 7% and I did not have to do the escrow, points etc and paid the taxes separately myself as I do on my building.
I had put $1500 down, the closing costs were low.


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Old 11-24-2013, 11:57 AM   #149
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Only jobs it creates is for highly skilled OIL & GAS FIELD workers, not "Jane" the waitress or "Joe" the stock broker and it will be the same for keystone- a few temporary jobs for those with skills and training to operate cats, dozers, weld and big machinery.
The Canadian oil is NOT for us, it is to use our dirty refineries to process it (and leave the pollution HERE) while they ship the oil overseas where people in China, Asia, and Europe have been paying the equiv of $8 a gallon for gasoline and are happy to get it and don't complain $3 is too high!
I can agree partly with that in the initial construction phase, but low energy prices eventually feed through into consumer's pockets, increasing spending and helping the economy.

And lower energy prices also encourage industries. I know this because several large energy-using industries here have closed and gone overseas where energy costs are cheaper. Alcoa is one example, which a year ago closed a large aluminium smelter because of energy costs. Our energy costs are high because of government-imposed green taxes to pay for wind turbines and other stupid forms of power generation.

Sad thing is, in UK we are sitting on 100 + years of coal, yet high carbon taxes prohibit mining. And yet the Chinese are busy opening new coal-fired power stations at fifty to the dozen: crazy.

By the way, we are not happy to be paying the equivalent of $8 a gallon for petrol and diesel! $3 a gallon would be Christmas-come-early!
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Old 11-24-2013, 05:28 PM   #150
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And lower energy prices also encourage industries. I know this because several large energy-using industries here have closed and gone overseas where energy costs are cheaper
They, like the other's have left mainly due to high labor costs plus worker's comp, vacation, SS and insurance along with benefits.
When they can hire workers in Afcrapistan to work for $2 a day and no benefits they are happy to move their production overseas.


Quote:
Sad thing is, in UK we are sitting on 100 + years of coal, yet high carbon taxes prohibit mining. And yet the Chinese are busy opening new coal-fired power stations at fifty to the dozen: crazy.
Coal is one of the dirtiest pollution sources there is, that's why China has a massive SMOG problem in Beijing and other big cities- they burn all that coal and other stuff and the media shows this thick grey crud hanging in the air with everyone having to wear surgical masks when they go outdoors.
The planet is like a sealed fishtank, nothing escapes into space, the pollution, toxins and chemicals all stay here like one big churning toilet bowl, we can't continue as we have been.


Quote:
By the way, we are not happy to be paying the equivalent of $8 a gallon for petrol and diesel! $3 a gallon would be Christmas-come-early!
Could be worse, In Norway the price of a gallon of gas is $9.97

Some other average prices;

Canada $5.56 per gallon
France $8.29 per gallon
Turkey $9.96 per gallon
Saudi Arabia $0.76 per gallon
Iran $0.04 per gallon
UK $7.88
Venezuela $0.08 per gallon
Italy $8.84

http://www.mytravelcost.com/petrol-prices/

I totally disagree on wind turbines, at the moment 1/3 of the electric in the state of Iowa is being generated by non polluting, always produced wind turbines now and the number is increasing rapidly, that is why Google built a huge server farm here after seeing the electric costs are so cheap, I pay about 6-1/2 cents a kwh.


August 2013:

Hundreds of new MidAmerican Energy wind turbines will be sprouting up in five Iowa counties soon as part of a $1.9 billion project that will generate up to 1,050 megawatts of power in Iowa by 2015, Gov. Terry Branstad said Monday.

Branstad said the project – the largest economic development investment in state history — will create about 460 construction jobs over two years with an estimated payroll of $30 million and 48 permanent jobs with a $2.4 million payment, and an overall economic impact for Iowa that includes about $360 million in additional property tax revenue for local governments over the next 30 years, as well as payments of up to $3.2 million annually to farmers for the use of their land.

Since 2004, MidAmerican has installed 1,267 wind turbines in Iowa representing a total investment of about $4 billion and making it the largest rate-regulated utility owner of wind generation in the United States.

The electric generation capability for MidAmerican Energy will comprise about 39 percent wind, 33 percent coal, 18 percent natural gas, 6 percent nuclear, and 4 percent other by July 2016.

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