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Old 03-02-2011, 09:07 AM   #16
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Putting up a Pergola


Thanks, all, for your suggestions! The project is a few weeks away at least, so I can investigate requirements with the local code departments, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by beerdog View Post
Why must one post be on the slab?
It relates to the manner in which the patio slab interfaces with the slab the house is built on and the adjacent fence. I'll take my camera with me this coming weekend and take photos.....

Anyone else have any suggestions? I sure would like to avoid cutting a hole in the patio slab.

One idea I had....does anyone make a 1/2" device with an action like a toggle bolt, such as this:



I could see drilling THROUGH the slab with a hammer drill, using a vacuum or some other device to remove a bit of dirt from below the bottom of the slab, inserting the butterfly-wing end until it opens up, then using that sort of a device to hold the post bracket down (obviously, using a nut to hold the bracket down rather than a screw, as shown). I'm comfortable that with an adequate connection of the post bracket to the patio slab the pergola would be secure enough to avoid being sent flying with a stiff wind. I can easily modify the post bracket so that bolts are used to attach the post rather than nails. Here is an example of the post bracket I'll be using:



Again, thanks for all the comments and suggestions! Pics will be forthcoming.

[edit: Did anyone else notice that whoever took the photo of the toggle bolt has the "wings" installed incorrectly? They would have to be "reversed" to offer any stability.....GEEZ!!]

Cheers from Dugly !!

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Last edited by YerDugliness; 03-02-2011 at 09:14 AM. Reason: reference photo of toggle bolt with wings installed wrong
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Old 03-02-2011, 09:15 AM   #17
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Putting up a Pergola


A butterfly retainer like that would only be good enough for keeping the post from slidding arround. It could never be relied on to counteract heavy winds. Concrete specific retainers would be a better choice.
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Old 03-02-2011, 10:07 AM   #18
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Putting up a Pergola


You can use a concrete wedge anchor or you can epoxy a threaded rod into the concrete. Google, "concrete anchors".
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Old 03-02-2011, 11:00 AM   #19
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Anchors is wwhat I ment to sat...not retainers.
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Old 03-02-2011, 11:06 AM   #20
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Putting up a Pergola


My father built several pergolas on his concrete patio. Never had any issues. He just used anchoring brackets like you show. He even turned the latest one into a 4 season room with a roof, walls, windows, etc. He also poured the over built patio 40 years ago. It is thicker than normal with a thicker gravel base. Never had a crack the entire time. Even though these structures never have any issue his only problem will be when he goes to sell the house having a major structure completly not to code may become a problem.
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Old 03-02-2011, 12:29 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron6519 View Post
You can use a concrete wedge anchor or you can epoxy a threaded rod into the concrete. Google, "concrete anchors".
Ron
Thanks, Ron....I actually like the idea of an epoxied IXP anchor much more than an expandable mechanical anchor, as described in this:

http://www.simpsonanchors.com/catalog/adhesives/set/

I'll print off the specs and take them to the code department....if they are happy, it's probably the route I'll go.

Quote:
Originally Posted by beerdog View Post
My father built several pergolas on his concrete patio. Never had any issues. He just used anchoring brackets like you show. He even turned the latest one into a 4 season room with a roof, walls, windows, etc. He also poured the over built patio 40 years ago. It is thicker than normal with a thicker gravel base. Never had a crack the entire time. Even though these structures never have any issue his only problem will be when he goes to sell the house having a major structure completly not to code may become a problem.
The issue of having difficulty when offering the house for sale is a serious one....plans involve eventually selling the home and using the equity $$ to finance another housing project. The pergola is intended to be a selling point, not a selling barrier. I will definitely proceed toward getting more information from the code department in the municipality in which I am pursuing the project. Having the sale of the home held up by a code violation would be a HUGE mistake!

I would like to thank all of you who have made suggestions. As you can see, I am taking them seriously.....and many of you have brought up methods and issues to which I had not given adequate consideration.

Please feel free to offer additional suggestions/comments !

Cheers from Dugly

Last edited by YerDugliness; 03-02-2011 at 12:35 PM. Reason: spelling. I think this computer is dyslexic!!!
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Old 03-07-2011, 12:37 PM   #22
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Putting up a Pergola


Quote:
Originally Posted by beerdog View Post
Why must one post be on the slab?
OK, as promised, I now have photos.

Here is a view of the patio taken facing southeast:



Now, corner by corner:

The SW corner of the patio, adjacent to the jam of the sliding glass door:



Obviously, if there were no other way, I could use a sonotube in the mulched area, but the homeowner tells me she thinks there may be utilities under that landscaping. I would do a "onecall" if I were considering a sonotube, but I think I can manage with the post bracket mounted to the slab here.

The NW corner of the patio. Again, I could put a sonotube into the mulched area, and I sincerely doubt there would be any interference with underground utilities there.



The NE corner of the patio.....again, certainly room for a sonotube in the mulched area if that is the only option.



OK, here is the "offending" corner. There is nothing I can do but anchor to the slab here (keep in mind I am hoping to avoid cutting a hole out of the slab):



The slab measures 8' X 14'. We would not be able to mount the two southern posts within 18" of the wall, b/c we must clear the guttering.

I'm sure the patio would be anchored into the foundation of the house (at least, that is the way I always did it when I was building houses), so I'm sure that those two would be stable. It is the two northern mounts that concern me (I have not dug down to see how deep the footings go, but when we get ready to put the plants into the mulched area, I will). Obviously, I would much rather not have the southern two posts mounted to the slab and the northern two posts mounted to sonotube-formed columns.....would prefer to avoid "spoiling" the look of the landscaped area that way.

I like the idea of drilling into the patio and using the epoxy attachment system, but I haven't had a chance to check with city hall yet....that's the next step.

Onward through the fog!!

Cheers from Dugly
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Old 03-07-2011, 12:53 PM   #23
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Putting up a Pergola


Are you a contractor or the home owner? There is a forum called contractortalk.com. You will get more pro opinions over there. They tend to frown on DIYers posting. Many of the pros over there answer our questions over here.
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Old 03-07-2011, 01:06 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beerdog View Post
Are you a contractor or the home owner? There is a forum called contractortalk.com. You will get more pro opinions over there. They tend to frown on DIYers posting. Many of the pros over there answer our questions over here.
I was a contractor in a previous life (almost lost my life in a 32 foot fall from a roof onto hard packed clay), just a DIY type now (retired after a 32 year career in public education). My girlfriend is the home owner , she is the one who really wants the pergola.

[edit--she says there is literally NO code enforcement in Huntsville, TX, but I would feel real bad if a potential buyer hired a private inspector and the sale was imperiled by a bad report on the pergola structure.]

I really want for the pergola to be permanently installed, as after it is built I plan on tiling the patio with saltillo tiles .

Cheers from Dugly

Last edited by YerDugliness; 03-07-2011 at 01:08 PM. Reason: additional comment
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Old 03-07-2011, 01:13 PM   #25
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Putting up a Pergola


I just don't know the local codes there. The slab looks pretty new and sound. I would guess you will not have any issues building on the slab. How thick is the slab? The big question is would it meet codes. Might be easiest to apply for a permit and see what they say. Try hitting the library and check out a few books on lanscape construction.
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Old 03-07-2011, 01:23 PM   #26
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I was actually thinking the slab is so small, get rid of it. The edge in the first picture looks to be thin.
The pergola was going to be bigger then the slab anyway, why not put the same floor under the whole thing?
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Old 03-07-2011, 01:32 PM   #27
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Well if you are going to remove the slab then you can do everything the right way. That simplify's the conversation but of course adds to the cost. Is this a town home? The fence loosk liek it is int eh middle of the house?
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Old 03-07-2011, 01:33 PM   #28
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http://www.dwellarticles.us/wp-conte...th-Pergola.jpg

Copied this off the net, now I know what a Pergola is. Rent a big hammer drill, and dig down with a post hole digger and keep the city forefathers out of it. He just may have the "Power" to say you can't do it , as he also has never seen one before.
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Old 03-07-2011, 01:45 PM   #29
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Just saw your pictures of your project. Put your post outside of slab, no big deal on the looks.
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Old 03-07-2011, 02:09 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bernieb View Post
Just saw your pictures of your project. Put your post outside of slab, no big deal on the looks.
I agree, It would help add lateral stability to the structure. Perhaps you could fore go the sonotube and just bury the posts. Maybe form around them to match the elevation of the existing slab.

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