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Old 09-01-2012, 12:27 PM   #16
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Putting up a beam - Need Help?


If that stair cut out has held up on it's own without a beam for probably 30 years and I put a beam I can't see there being any extra weight transferred that would push or bow the the (3) 2x8 below that run from a beam to beam about 6 feet span. But I am not gonna act like I know cause I don't.


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Old 09-01-2012, 12:39 PM   #17
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Putting up a beam - Need Help?


You could fasten 10 2x6's together and it will still sag. The osb adds virtually nothing as well. Once you get past 3 members, the additional strength by adding more is practically nil.
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Old 09-01-2012, 01:20 PM   #18
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Putting up a beam - Need Help?


Discouraging news.
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Old 09-01-2012, 01:53 PM   #19
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Putting up a beam - Need Help?


what eve size beam is determined to carry the 2nd floor load (and any roof loads) will require the ends of the beam to be supported by a column down to a foundation. does not matter if PSL, 2x or steel beams are used.

You should contact a professional engineer to evaluate your current conditions and determine a proper course of action. This evaluation requires "eyes on the site." Photos are great, but you have to be able to visualize the entire structure including roof to determine load paths and type of construction. Just cannot do that with a few photos.

They may decide to move the location of the beam based upon your existing foundation construction. They may decide to use a flush frame beam where you support the 2nd floor framing on either side of the proposed beam location and cut out the 2nd floor joists to slide a properly sized beam into place and connecting the floor joists to the new beam. This would help with headroom under the beam.

But the beam must be designed to carry the load or you could have serious consequences. Hope this makes sense. I would not proceed any further until a proper evaluation has been performed.
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Old 09-01-2012, 02:05 PM   #20
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what are the existing 2nd floor joists? 2x8, 2x10? at 16" o.c., at 24" o.c.? I take it the rear wall of the room is a load beam wall (beam in basement under wall)? what is the distance from the front wall to the rear wall?

I take it the room is 14' in width? if so is the 14' from the wall on the left or right side of the stairs (as walking up stairs)?
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Old 09-01-2012, 02:19 PM   #21
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Putting up a beam - Need Help?


I will work on posting many more photos of crawl space attic above and roof. Also basement. Also floor on each side where post need to go.

The ceiling joists (2nd floor joist) are 2x6. The living room is 14' width x 19'. That is with stairs so would actually be about 18' width.
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Old 09-01-2012, 02:21 PM   #22
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Putting up a beam - Need Help?


so the ceiling in the living room has just an attic above? or is there living space?
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Old 09-01-2012, 02:36 PM   #23
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It has a crawl space to one side of where I want to put beam and other side the bedroom floor. The floor in room has a wall below it that divides living room to kitchen. The beam is going just below where there is a current half wall. It's one of those rooms you walk into it has sloped ceiling on each side and half wall on each side. You can imagine walking into the room and having a half wall to your right about 6' our 7' to your right. Looks to be an attic turned into living space once upon a time.

Above living room it's mostly crawl space than turns into not even enough space to crawl. There is the half wall than few feet away another little wall no more than foot high with double plate supporting sloped roof. There is about 7' of the 19' feet span above living room that is living space.

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Old 09-01-2012, 02:57 PM   #24
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Putting up a beam - Need Help?


Your supports need to run down to a footing somehow, and it doesnt sound like you have that.
If you added a post in the living room 6 ft from the end at the bad side i'd say your on to something but then that post would also need a footing.
Now if you put the beam up it will hide the bow because it will separate into 2 ceilings and you wont notice it as much. But then you could just make a ladder header for that.
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Old 09-01-2012, 03:09 PM   #25
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OK .......

something is not right obviously, a 19' span for a limited storage attic (20 psf live load) would require 2x10 floor joists/living room ceiling joists at 16" o.c. and you have 2x6 with living space (minimum of 30 psf). With stairs going up to even limited storage the building code requires a minimum of 30 psf live load (the code understands that with stairs people will turn storage space into living).

You need to hire a professional engineer before proceeding with any further construction, at least in my opinion. Sounds to me like some changes have been made from the original design/layout of your home. These changes have probably affected the structure in ways they did not know, anticipate or understand.

I do not believe you will find anyone on here willing to provide guidance without actually seeing first hand the current conditions and determining your load paths. Something to think about, "if you ask long enough, or post on enough sites you'll find someone (of course you do not know their knowledge or level of expertise) that will tell you what to do. WOULD YOU?"

I would contact on professional engineer on Tuesday and get them to come to your home for an evaluation.
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Old 09-01-2012, 03:53 PM   #26
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Putting up a beam - Need Help?


The sizes of the floor joist for second floor is probably because of very old codes when this portion of house was built. Thanks for your time. I can probably afford the professional but won't afford what his gonna force me too do once he sees this. The way I am seeing it is the ceiling is fine the way it is if I can live with sag. Putting a beam won't hurt it. I will still consider professional I know that is the best advice.
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Old 09-01-2012, 04:04 PM   #27
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Putting up a beam - Need Help?


I made a mistake they are 2x8 floor joists for second floor. The ceiling joists.
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Old 09-01-2012, 04:28 PM   #28
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Putting up a beam - Need Help?


sounds 'bout right. that span with those loads (floor live and dead) I'd expect a 2" to 2-1/4" deflection (sag) in the member (depending on wood species).

its your home, no one can make you do anything, not even a professional engineer. you can discuss items such as cost, making it as much DIY as possible (depends on your abilities). you'll never know what his solution will be until you discuss it. myself I see a flushed frame steel beam pretty much hidden in your existing floor with a couple of columns down to new footings (or maybe only 1 new footing depending on your existing foundation).

Good luck!
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Old 09-02-2012, 07:39 AM   #29
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Putting up a beam - Need Help?


Quote:
Originally Posted by kgagnon7 View Post
I should a added that closing it off with a wall is what I want to do. But was only gonna close off section from beam to right of beam leave railing on left side. I was thinking and I might be able to put a post in basement. It's unfinished just had a plan I will just have to rearrange layout that I wanted in basement as I hide these post in the walls.
you will have to demo some of the stair wall drywall to place in solid bearing points below where the beam lands and these bearing points must go completely to a solid support footing or foundation at the lowest point.
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Old 09-02-2012, 09:49 AM   #30
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Putting up a beam - Need Help?


So when I build bearing points I run them from top of stair cut out straight to foundation. How many? One on each side of wall one side being the post hidden in wall.

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