Putting in header in wall!

federer · 10-02-2012, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notmrjohn

I like mae's idea of thickening the whole wall. it will suppost the rafter ends and be... I dunno...classier looking thru opening to be thicker. The column or pilaster look on rafter side would look classy. But pilaster every 16 inches would be too much. How far from floor are the bottoms of rafters in the "rafter room"? If high enuff maybe a horisontal beam to support them. Mite work anyway if you are going to put sloped ceiling on rafters.

Ahhh, worry about aestetics later, I'm still scared house will fall. Hasn't so far.

yea thats what we were worried about; the fact the roof hasnt fallen yet! we were shocked to see them all tied into teh studs like that. what we want to do is put new studs under each rafter so the rafter is sitting on top of each one, not screwed in as a sister.

back to the opening-if we dont touch rafter the height to teh floor is only about maybe 4.5 ft.

federer · 10-02-2012, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mae-ling

I got so excited about the problem solving I forgot to ask the standard question.

Should you be getting permits for this?

haha lets focus on problem solving first

i mean we are only doing an opening not taking teh wall down

notmrjohn · 10-02-2012, 07:01 PM

Curiouser and curiouser. The more pics I see the weirder it gets. Do you have a pic of where new addition rafters tie into old? Looks like foam may cover that.

Lemmee see can I explain the look of opening and ceiling& walls from rafter room as I understand it. Standing almost in opening,the walls on each side go up to ceiling which slants up along rafters. In the opening you will have 6, 8, mebbee 10" thick walls. Two ways for ceiling over opening. it comes straight and flat as wide as opening till it meets slope, there are vertical walls on each side coming down to slope. A tunnel up high. The corners where tunnel walls meet slope could be head bangers, depending on how low rafters are on wall. The opening ceiling could slope up from openining, maybe even widening farther from opening. Raising and softening the corners where existing slope ceiling meets tunnel walls and softening narrow tunnel effect. And "tunnel' is close to 4' wide already.

mae-ling · 10-02-2012, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by federer

ok f*ck. the 1st floor right below is living room. no wall beneath

Man I agree with NOTMRJohn How has it stood up.
I'd be scared to put that opening in.

Gonna need beams in the floor below under the studs under the header. Or maybe not if the new roof above the old roof carries all the weight and the old roof is there now just for drywall, then MAY and it is a big MAY not need header at all.

Need to get structural engineer on site to look at it.

mae-ling · 10-02-2012, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by federer

haha lets focus on problem solving first

i mean we are only doing an opening not taking teh wall down

An opening that could cause serious structural damage to your house. I would not want anyone hurt because of wanting to save a few bucks.

If you can not afford the engineer you probably can not afford to to the work.

federer · 10-02-2012, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notmrjohn

Curiouser and curiouser. The more pics I see the weirder it gets. Do you have a pic of where new addition rafters tie into old? Looks like foam may cover that.

Lemmee see can I explain the look of opening and ceiling& walls from rafter room as I understand it. Standing almost in opening,the walls on each side go up to ceiling which slants up along rafters. In the opening you will have 6, 8, mebbee 10" thick walls. Two ways for ceiling over opening. it comes straight and flat as wide as opening till it meets slope, there are vertical walls on each side coming down to slope. A tunnel up high. The corners where tunnel walls meet slope could be head bangers, depending on how low rafters are on wall. The opening ceiling could slope up from openining, maybe even widening farther from opening. Raising and softening the corners where existing slope ceiling meets tunnel walls and softening narrow tunnel effect. And "tunnel' is close to 4' wide already.

hmm...honestly, i am not sure how its all tied into each other

our main concern is solving teh opening issue. the ceiling when we tore it down was sloped along the rafters so we expect sloped ceilings when its finished

notmrjohn · 10-02-2012, 07:09 PM

"haha lets focus on problem solving first

i mean we are only doing an opening not taking teh wall down"

No you are just cutting a four foot section out of load bearing wall , doing a poor job of bearing the load, with no support under it. Its the same as taking the whole wall down.

If I was hired to do this I wouldn't even open the tool box, unless there was a permit, and a certified architect or structural engineers report.

I might, I say might, put in jack studs under the rafter ends without permit.

federer · 10-02-2012, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mae-ling

Man I agree with NOTMRJohn How has it stood up.
I'd be scared to put that opening in.

Gonna need beams in the floor below under the studs under the header. Or maybe not if the new roof above the old roof carries all the weight and the old roof is there now just for drywall, then MAY and it is a big MAY not need header at all.

Need to get structural engineer on site to look at it.

its 2 roofs. in the back side original house its sloped shingles. the addition/siding side in the front is flat roof.
from teh pic you can kind of see that above the 3 top plates there is more room before meeting roof.

mae-ling · 10-02-2012, 07:11 PM

I wouldn't even do that , as I now become responsible.

The opening issue is tied to the 1st floor ceiling and on down to the foundation.
Need an engineer

federer · 10-02-2012, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notmrjohn

"haha lets focus on problem solving first

i mean we are only doing an opening not taking teh wall down"

No you are just cutting a four foot section out of load bearing wall , doing a poor job of bearing the load, with no support under it. Its the same as taking the whole wall down.

If I was hired to do this I wouldn't even open the tool box, unless there was a permit, and a certified architect or structural engineers report.

I might, I say might, put in jack studs under the rafter ends without permit.

how do you know its load bearing? if we get permit the inspector is going to make us rebuild the whole house! the fact that its been standing like this for the last 15yrs shows its solid right

mae-ling · 10-02-2012, 07:15 PM

You don't know if it is load bearing or not that is why you need engineer and inspections.
If it was a simple opening in a regular wall, then would not need engineer.

It may be solid as it but you are changing that.

federer · 10-02-2012, 07:15 PM

so...no opening until engineer comes in and says so

federer · 10-02-2012, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mae-ling

You don't know if it is load bearing or not that is why you need engineer and inspections.
If it was a simple opening in a regular wall, then would not need engineer.

It may be solid as it but you are changing that.

well its not solid now. the pics show rafters tied to the studs with only like 2 screws! sistered, not even sitting on top of studs

mae-ling · 10-02-2012, 07:17 PM

Thanks Thanks Thanks!!!!!

I know it seems like a waste of money but in your case it would be money well spent.
There are just things in your case that are to hard to solve over this interwebthingy.

mae-ling · 10-02-2012, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by federer

well its not solid now. the pics show rafters tied to the studs with only like 2 screws! sistered, not even sitting on top of studs

Which may be not good.
When you cut out 2 rafters and put in a beam and studs on the sides you are asking that area on each side of the opening to basically carry twice the load it was before.

I drive mine trucks, they carry 220tonnes (metric) (about 242ton) so if I double that 440tonnes (484ton) it is going to break.