Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Building & Construction

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 11-24-2013, 07:57 AM   #31
Licensed Electrician
 
k_buz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: SE Wisconsin
Posts: 4,336
Share |
Default

Protecting cables and pipes in steel studs


Quote:
Originally Posted by Philly Master View Post
how so ....
Read the two codes there are some very obvious differences.

300.4 is more restrictive than the one you posted. If you simply followed the one in 550, you would likely fail in a number of situations.

__________________
__________________________________________________ ______________
Answers based on the National Electric Code. Always check local amendments.


k_buz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2013, 08:02 AM   #32
Electrical Contractor
 
Philly Master's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: SE PA
Posts: 1,137
Default

Protecting cables and pipes in steel studs


550.15

(C) Metal-Covered and Nonmetallic Cable Protection. Metal-covered and nonmetallic cables shall be permitted to pass through the centers of the wide side of 2 by 4 studs. However, they shall be protected where they pass through 2 by 2 studs or at other studs or frames where the cable or armor would be less than 32 mm (1¼ in.) from the inside or outside surface of the studs where the wall covering materials are in contact with the studs. Steel plates on each side of the cable, or a tube, with not less than 1.35 mm (0.053 in.) wall thickness shall be required to protect the cable. These plates or tubes shall be securely held in place.



300.4

(1) Bored Holes. In both exposed and concealed locations, where a cable- or raceway-type wiring method is installed through bored holes in joists, rafters, or wood members, holes shall be bored so that the edge of the hole is not less than 32 mm (1¼ in.) from the nearest edge of the wood member. Where this distance cannot be maintained, the cable or raceway shall be protected from penetration by screws or nails by a steel plate(s) or bushing(s), at least 1.6 mm ( in.) thick, and of appropriate length and width installed to cover the area of the wiring. See related UL Exception No. 1: Steel plates shall not be required to protect rigid metal conduit, intermediate metal conduit, rigid nonmetallic conduit, or electrical metallic tubing.

Exception No. 2: A listed and marked steel plate less than 1.6 mm ( in.) thick that provides equal or better protection against nail or screw penetration shall be permitted.




so wheres the difference .... BE SPECIFIC .....
__________________
Philadelphia Master Electrician-Generac Dealer
Philly Master is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2013, 08:08 AM   #33
Licensed Electrician
 
k_buz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: SE Wisconsin
Posts: 4,336
Default

Protecting cables and pipes in steel studs


Quote:
Originally Posted by Philly Master View Post
550.15

(C) Metal-Covered and Nonmetallic Cable Protection. Metal-covered and nonmetallic cables shall be permitted to pass through the centers of the wide side of 2 by 4 studs. However, they shall be protected where they pass through 2 by 2 studs or at other studs or frames where the cable or armor would be less than 32 mm (1¼ in.) from the inside or outside surface of the studs where the wall covering materials are in contact with the studs. Steel plates on each side of the cable, or a tube, with not less than 1.35 mm (0.053 in.) wall thickness shall be required to protect the cable. These plates or tubes shall be securely held in place.



300.4

(1) Bored Holes. In both exposed and concealed locations, where a cable- or raceway-type wiring method is installed through bored holes in joists, rafters, or wood members, holes shall be bored so that the edge of the hole is not less than 32 mm (1¼ in.) from the nearest edge of the wood member. Where this distance cannot be maintained, the cable or raceway shall be protected from penetration by screws or nails by a steel plate(s) or bushing(s), at least 1.6 mm ( in.) thick, and of appropriate length and width installed to cover the area of the wiring. See related UL Exception No. 1: Steel plates shall not be required to protect rigid metal conduit, intermediate metal conduit, rigid nonmetallic conduit, or electrical metallic tubing.

Exception No. 2: A listed and marked steel plate less than 1.6 mm ( in.) thick that provides equal or better protection against nail or screw penetration shall be permitted.




so wheres the difference .... BE SPECIFIC .....
Differences in bold.
__________________
__________________________________________________ ______________
Answers based on the National Electric Code. Always check local amendments.


k_buz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2013, 08:31 AM   #34
Licensed Electrician
 
k_buz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: SE Wisconsin
Posts: 4,336
Default

Protecting cables and pipes in steel studs


And to be truthful, neither are specific to the OP's question. Yours talks about mobile and manufactured homes. Mine talks about bored holes.

What should have been cited is 300.4 B 2, which is much less restrictive as it only mentions NM and EMT and says nothing about the 1 1/4" distance.

Quote:
(2) Nonmetallic-Sheathed Cable and Electrical Nonmetallic
Tubing. Where nails or screws are likely to penetrate
nonmetallic-sheathed cable or electrical nonmetallic tubing,
a steel sleeve, steel plate, or steel clip not less than 1.6 mm
(1⁄16 in.) in thickness shall be used to protect the cable or
tubing.
__________________
__________________________________________________ ______________
Answers based on the National Electric Code. Always check local amendments.


k_buz is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to k_buz For This Useful Post:
stickboy1375 (11-24-2013)
Old 11-24-2013, 08:49 AM   #35
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: North Carolina, USA
Posts: 2,412
Default

Protecting cables and pipes in steel studs


It seems in general, structural steel studs are heavier than drywall steel studs, but there's an interesting overlap. Both are made in 20 gauge. One manufacturer quotes the following:
20 ga Drywall .0312 30 mil
20 ga Structural .0329 33 mil

However the SSMA document specifies them both at .0346. So either it's made of a tougher steel, or it could be equally easy to drill through.

The structural difference could also be explained by the SSMA document, where it looks like a drywall steel "2x4" is 3 1/2" x 1 1/4". The structural equivalent is 3 1/2" x 1 5/8". That difference obviously makes the stud stronger, but won't affect my drilling into it.
jeffnc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2013, 08:59 AM   #36
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: North Carolina, USA
Posts: 2,412
Default

Protecting cables and pipes in steel studs


I started this discussion on the electrical and plumbing forums, but I think it might be more appropriate here.

I'm going to be installing some "baseboard" trim high on a wall as a picture rail. The walls are already constructed and have steel studs. The trim is 9/16" thick, and the drywall is 1/2". I'll be using 1 5/8" self tapping trim screws to secure the trim.

I want to educate myself about the potential for hitting a pipe or cable. I know codes specify that cables or pipes must be 1 1/4" from the edge of the stud, or if they are not, they must be covered by a metal plate. Assuming a 1/16" countersink of the screw head, I will be penetrating the stud by 5/8", which should be fine (a good 1/8" less than the typical drywall screw penetration.)

My question is, will I know when I'm tapping into a protective plate vs. a steel stud? I don't know the gauge of the studs, or if they are of type "drywall" or "structural". I know drywall studs tend to be thinner (down to 25 gauge), however both drywall and structural studs are both made in 20 gauge.
jeffnc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2013, 09:25 AM   #37
E2 Electrician
 
stickboy1375's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Litchfield, CT
Posts: 4,678
Default

Protecting cables and pipes in steel studs


I've seen guys pre drill nail plates used on wood studs, it's really a moot point….. As a professional, I don't drill holes where I'll require to use nail plates, or run cables where I know they will be most likely to be compromised by the less competent trades following me.
stickboy1375 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2013, 09:29 AM   #38
E2 Electrician
 
stickboy1375's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Litchfield, CT
Posts: 4,678
Default

Protecting cables and pipes in steel studs


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Port View Post
Those will eventually drill into the nail plate. Someone with a clue should notice that the screw stops when it hits the plate and not just push harder. The length will protect the cable from being hit.
Such a bold statement to make….
stickboy1375 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2013, 10:30 AM   #39
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,028
Default

Protecting cables and pipes in steel studs


Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffnc View Post
This is an existing structure - drywall has been up for years.
Then why are we even discussing nail plates if it is already finished wall?
Ghostmaker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2013, 10:35 AM   #40
Electrical Contractor
 
Philly Master's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: SE PA
Posts: 1,137
Default

Protecting cables and pipes in steel studs


Quote:
Originally Posted by Philly Master View Post
550.15

(C) Metal-Covered and Nonmetallic Cable Protection. Metal-covered and nonmetallic cables shall be permitted to pass through the centers of the wide side of 2 by 4 studs. However, they shall be protected where they pass through 2 by 2 studs or at other studs or frames where the cable or armor would be less than 32 mm (1¼ in.) from the inside or outside surface of the studs where the wall covering materials are in contact with the studs. Steel plates on each side of the cable, or a tube, with not less than 1.35 mm (0.053 in.) wall thickness shall be required to protect the cable. These plates or tubes shall be securely held in place.



300.4

(1) Bored Holes. In both exposed and concealed locations, where a cable- or raceway-type wiring method is installed through bored holes in joists, rafters, or wood members, holes shall be bored so that the edge of the hole is not less than 32 mm (1¼ in.) from the nearest edge of the wood member. Where this distance cannot be maintained, the cable or raceway shall be protected from penetration by screws or nails by a steel plate(s) or bushing(s), at least 1.6 mm ( in.) thick, and of appropriate length and width installed to cover the area of the wiring. See related UL Exception No. 1: Steel plates shall not be required to protect rigid metal conduit, intermediate metal conduit, rigid nonmetallic conduit, or electrical metallic tubing.

Exception No. 2: A listed and marked steel plate less than 1.6 mm ( in.) thick that provides equal or better protection against nail or screw penetration shall be permitted.




so wheres the difference .... BE SPECIFIC .....

first we are not talking BORED HOLES ...correct we are talking steel studs ...
__________________
Philadelphia Master Electrician-Generac Dealer
Philly Master is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2013, 10:37 AM   #41
journeyman carpenter
 
woodworkbykirk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: nova scotia canada
Posts: 2,653
Default

Protecting cables and pipes in steel studs


use a finish nailer with short nails in conjunction with wood glue to glue the trim to the wall.. if you use the "CROSS NAILING" method you will have plenty of holding power
woodworkbykirk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2013, 10:39 AM   #42
E2 Electrician
 
stickboy1375's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Litchfield, CT
Posts: 4,678
Default

Protecting cables and pipes in steel studs


Quote:
Originally Posted by Philly Master View Post
first we are not talking BORED HOLES ...correct we are talking steel studs ...
Why did you highlight "Metal Covered" in your NEC excerpt? That is the wiring method, that has been a non issue in this thread.
stickboy1375 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2013, 10:43 AM   #43
Licensed electrician
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Maryland
Posts: 7,395
Default

Protecting cables and pipes in steel studs


Quote:
Originally Posted by stickboy1375 View Post
Such a bold statement to make….
Just one of my faults.
__________________
Answers based on the National Electrical Code. Local amendments may apply. Check with your local building officials.
Jim Port is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2013, 10:45 AM   #44
Electrical Contractor
 
Philly Master's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: SE PA
Posts: 1,137
Default

Protecting cables and pipes in steel studs


normally this is what is used ...

http://www.ohiopowertool.com/P-5074-...15C=1894568827
__________________
Philadelphia Master Electrician-Generac Dealer
Philly Master is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2013, 10:47 AM   #45
E2 Electrician
 
stickboy1375's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Litchfield, CT
Posts: 4,678
Default

Protecting cables and pipes in steel studs


Quote:
Originally Posted by Philly Master View Post
OR you get factory prepunched metal studs, and just install bushings. I'd love to see a picture of the OP's scenario.

stickboy1375 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to stickboy1375 For This Useful Post:
Philly Master (11-24-2013)
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.