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Old 07-16-2012, 01:04 AM   #1
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Project Shop with large 1 bedroom mancave


Hello,

I'm thinking of having a metal 40x60 with 22ft ceiling metal shop installed on some property I have. It will be insulated with 3 inches of foam.

Within that shop I wish to build a two story one bedroom apartment. Measuring 23x40 with a total height of 18ft. It will be built inside the metal structure but will not support the metal structure in any way. My current plan is to frame with 2x6x10s. Downstate will be a bathroom on the backwall with a small opening into under stair laundry facilities, a kitchen will be adjacent looking into a living room with 18ft ceilings. On the left side of the kitchen will be a stair case leading up to a bedroom with a small loft seating area overlooking the living room.

My question is... the living room ceiling will span 23ft. For 22 of the 40 ft there will be no load bearing walls to support it. Will continuous built 2x6 beams be able to support the weight of plywood, insulation, ceiling fans, and lighting over that 23ft span? Placed every 16 inches with 3 stacked 2x6s?

If not, how would you span 22x23 with no additional bracing above the joists?

Please don't beat up on me too much, construction isn't starting for 14 months, Im just working on plans at the moment so I can get a more accurate idea of cost.

Thanks

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Old 07-16-2012, 09:25 AM   #2
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Project Shop with large 1 bedroom mancave


You're looking at engineered floor joists for that kind of span...sounds like you should look into an architect for this...

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Old 07-16-2012, 09:49 AM   #3
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Hi goat, if you look at a max. span table, there are no lumber sizes that would support a 23 ft. span. I understand that you are building the metal frame separately so that it doesn't put any weight on the inside structure. But the roof joists that extend between the walls are still laterally supporting the walls. I don't know if doubling up on 2 x 6's will be strong enough. Most homes built with a span of this size use a metal I-beam. You should probably ask a structural engineer.
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Old 07-16-2012, 09:51 AM   #4
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Project Shop with large 1 bedroom mancave


When you look at the span tables you will find it is not cost effective to span 23 ft with normal lumber. This is using the attic load with no storage load tables for ceiling joists. Having a 4x6 (ie 2 2x6) is not strong as a 2x8. It is the depth of the lumber that gives you the span not the width. Depending on the actual loads you most likely should use 2x10 maybe 2x8

You will have to special order and have delivered lumber that long anyway. I bet you will find you can buy I-joist for the same if not less. Been a while since I looked at the I-joist tables but I think we used 2 x 9-1/2 and spanned 24ft on 2 ft centers. Menards has those listed for less than $30.
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Old 07-16-2012, 10:24 AM   #5
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Project Shop with large 1 bedroom mancave


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Originally Posted by the goat View Post
Hello,

I'm thinking of having a metal 40x60 with 22ft ceiling metal shop installed on some property I have. It will be insulated with 3 inches of foam.

Within that shop I wish to build a two story one bedroom apartment. Measuring 23x40 with a total height of 18ft. It will be built inside the metal structure but will not support the metal structure in any way. My current plan is to frame with 2x6x10s. Downstate will be a bathroom on the backwall with a small opening into under stair laundry facilities, a kitchen will be adjacent looking into a living room with 18ft ceilings. On the left side of the kitchen will be a stair case leading up to a bedroom with a small loft seating area overlooking the living room.

My question is... the living room ceiling will span 23ft. For 22 of the 40 ft there will be no load bearing walls to support it. Will continuous built 2x6 beams be able to support the weight of plywood, insulation, ceiling fans, and lighting over that 23ft span? Placed every 16 inches with 3 stacked 2x6s?

If not, how would you span 22x23 with no additional bracing above the joists?

Please don't beat up on me too much, construction isn't starting for 14 months, Im just working on plans at the moment so I can get a more accurate idea of cost.

Thanks
You can draw your own plans for a commercial building like this and present them to the town for permits and inspections?
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Old 07-16-2012, 10:56 AM   #6
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Project Shop with large 1 bedroom mancave


Joe has a good point. If you draw up your own plans and submit them to the building department, they will tell you whether it meets the Building Code.
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Old 07-16-2012, 01:22 PM   #7
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they will tell you whether it meets the Building Code.
I wouldn't count on that...the responsibility still falls on the owner unless they've hired a design professional who signs and seals the drawings.
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Old 07-16-2012, 01:31 PM   #8
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Thanks.

Just to be clear its not commercial. The shop will be located on land which I will have a house built on in nine years. Building the shop with an apartment allows me to store vehicles, tractors, quads, and move away from where I am now. In addition it would grant me an awesome entertaining space for future parties


As for permits, I'm extremely rural. And I've already spoken with the guy who issues, as long as I assure him the design is sound, it's approved. But I wont say it is, until I'm sure of it.

Will there be any issues with 2x6s supporting those I beams? Or would it be better to frame that portion out of metal?

My goal is for it to feel like a cabin as much as possible, which means the 2x12s under the bedroom over the kitchen will be exposed. I've been working on drawings in AutoCAD, I may need to find a way to post from my phone.

I do actually know a handful of engineers, may have to see if any are structural rather than petro.

Appreciate the help. Thanks.
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Old 07-16-2012, 11:58 PM   #9
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Project Shop with large 1 bedroom mancave


RE: AG Whitehouse comment:

Where I live, the Building Department will not issue a Building Permit if it doesn't meet the minimum standards of the Building Code. If you take in plans, they will tell you why it does not meet the code. They will not necessarily solve your design or structural problem, but they will tell you that it is substandard and point you in the right direction.

Homeowners who have specific questions, such as this one, can make use of the experts at the Building Department, it is an untapped resource. I have gone in there a number of times on different projects prior to submitting drawings to get answers with great results. Many engineers charge by the minute for advice, including phone calls, so a check with the Building Department is often a time and money-saving device. I use an architect for all my drawings, but I use the building department to answer questions.
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Old 07-17-2012, 04:26 AM   #10
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My current plan is to frame with 2x6x10s. Downstate will be a bathroom on the backwall with a small opening into under stair laundry facilities, a kitchen will be adjacent looking into a living room

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