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-   -   Pressure treated posts set in concrete? (http://www.diychatroom.com/f19/pressure-treated-posts-set-concrete-9218/)

zubin6220 06-18-2007 02:00 AM

Pressure treated posts set in concrete?
 
I had a pole barn built several years ago and noticed that the 6x6 posts were not set in concrete. I inquired, and was told that it would void the warranty. Is this true that pressure treated posts should not be in concrete?
I've seen other applications in which they were indeed put in concrete.
Thanks in advance.

AtlanticWBConst. 06-18-2007 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zubin6220 (Post 49463)
I had a pole barn built several years ago and noticed that the 6x6 posts were not set in concrete. I inquired, and was told that it would void the warranty. Is this true that pressure treated posts should not be in concrete?
I've seen other applications in which they were indeed put in concrete.
Thanks in advance.

The answer is really subject to opinion.

(The key is that you NEVER want to install a PT post into an area that can create "standing Water" around the post, as this will break-down (water-log) the resistance treatment of the wood and eventually allow it to decay.)

Regarding your question; I've seen it done by reputable and experienced GC's. However, we choose not to place decking posts into concrete. Rather, attaching the post with brackets and mechanical fastenings to the surface of concrete piers or footings. Aside from my opinion, see below for other's....



Read up on the opinions:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...t=12478&page=2

"Pressure-treated pine posts are ideal for fencing because they resist rotting. These posts can be set in concrete to ensure their stability. Many companies offer an extended warranty on their pressure-treated posts to guarantee their quality." - http://www.americanfenceassociation....ood/index.aspx


"Should all posts be set in concrete?
We recommend that all posts be set in concrete in accordance with local conditions and standard building practices. Posts that are not set in concrete will eventually lean due to wind and weather. Check your local building codes through your city or county government for further details." - http://www.millsteadinfo.com/faq.aspx

"The post can be placed atop a concrete pier, bolted to a steel anchor, or it can be set in the concrete. Placing the post into the concrete pier adds strength, but it is more susceptible to rot." - http://canada.contractors.com/trade/...e_install.html

"Posts that weren't properly treated or set in concrete typically rot away at ground level." - http://home.howstuffworks.com/how-to...wood-fence.htm

"Why are we so concerned about longevity of this treated lumber post? Because treated lumber does not last forever. I have seen treated lumber begin to decay after less than 20 years of exposure to the elements. Anything that can be done to reduce the amount of water next to the post will surely reduce the chances of the preservative being washed away." - http://www.hammerzone.com/archives/d...nd/footing.htm

"Question: Is it ok to put a deck post into concrete instead of using an anchor, and if so,will the post not last as long as using an anchor.frost level is 36", how much of the post should be buried in the concrete.will this way be stronger(less sway) than using an anchor. thanks
Answer: Hi Ray. Definitely better to put it in concrete. Should give you minimal sway depending on how high the post is above the ground or deck. I am not too sure about frost levels as my life in the U.S. has been spent in California, Florida and south east Georgia. 24" depth into the ground should be quite O.K. Hope this helps." - http://en.allexperts.com/q/Decks-3464/deck-support.htm

KUIPORNG 06-18-2007 10:09 AM

Great information Atlantic...

concretemasonry 06-18-2007 11:35 AM

If you don't set the post in concrete for a fence, it will have much less lateral reisistance and can lean.

For a deck, few bolted attachments provide the lateral resistance that you really need in the long term (wood shrinkage, vibration and bolts loosening). If the deck is not too high, you may get away without embedding them. If the deck is higher, you will need some lateral bracing (diagonals (ful or just at the post/beam connection) to prevent swaying.

When ever you embed treated wood in concrete, keep the concrete 2" above the ground and form a sloping concrete/mortar cap to shed the water. This will help make the post last much longer.

Treated wood can do quite well when it is moist (like in concrete). What really eats up the wood quickly is the alternate wetting and drying you get from the soil at ground level. If you ever look at the old posts on ocean piers, the wood is fine below water level and above, but rots near the water line where the tides cause wetting and drying.

RYANINMICHIGAN 06-22-2007 02:16 PM

no crete is code in MI

murray59 07-13-2007 01:31 AM

A pole barn or pole shed gets its strength from the poles being sunk into the ground. That's why they are so economical, they don't require any footings. As for puting cement down the hole, well packed soil is just as good a cement. As was mentioned earlier you have to make sure there is good drainage so water can't rot the wood.

AtlanticWBConst. 07-13-2007 05:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zubin6220 (Post 49463)
I had a pole barn built several years ago and noticed that the 6x6 posts were not set in concrete. I inquired, and was told that it would void the warranty. Is this true that pressure treated posts should not be in concrete?
I've seen other applications in which they were indeed put in concrete.
Thanks in advance.

As stated, Pole barns in general, do not require their posts to be set in concrete.

You mentioned:
Quote:

Originally Posted by zubin6220 (Post 49463)
"I inquired, and was told that it would void the warranty..."

Did you mean that you inquired with the company or business who constructed the barn? .......... or that you simply "asked around" and got that answer from others?

In Terms of this question:
Quote:

Originally Posted by zubin6220 (Post 49463)
Is this true that pressure treated posts should not be in concrete?

The answer to that question is all together different from the context of your inquiry pertaining specifically to Pole Barns and Pole Sheds....

feloneouscat 08-16-2007 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by murray59 (Post 52771)
A pole barn or pole shed gets its strength from the poles being sunk into the ground. That's why they are so economical, they don't require any footings. As for puting cement down the hole, well packed soil is just as good a cement. As was mentioned earlier you have to make sure there is good drainage so water can't rot the wood.

Around here (Austin, Texas) poles are sunk in concrete. I've got one 10 year old pole barn and one 6 year old pole barn that are doing fine. I've got sand (literally) and it doesn't seem to pack well...

Cheers,

Feloneous

the roofing god 08-23-2007 12:28 AM

here in new york ,we typically secure posts to the footing w/brackets,also the pressure treated post will shrink slightly as it dries which will cause some loosening

feloneouscat 08-23-2007 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the roofing god (Post 59153)
here in new york ,we typically secure posts to the footing w/brackets,also the pressure treated post will shrink slightly as it dries which will cause some loosening

Yah, but if you sink them four feet, even with 'crete the shrink is virtually non-existent. What little there is gets filled in with dirt (our horses are messy about that).

Tho' to be fair, I had to pull one of our fence posts (also sunk with 'crete') and the sucker popped out like a cork. As always, your milage may vary...

tractorman90 11-28-2011 01:48 PM

post set in concrete
 
I built a pole barn and put gravel in around the post then cement. So it should be all right since the building is on a slop with good drainage and it going to be close in, with lean too on it and concrete floor. water should not be around any of the main post very much. i haven't built lean too yet but when i do i wont put cement around the post.

titanoman 11-28-2011 08:44 PM

When imbedded, the concrete shall be sloped...away...from the post. You know why.

tractorman90 11-29-2011 09:36 AM

post in concrete
 
That to help shed the water away from post. here is a ideal i had to help prevent rot. If u drill thew small hole in cement around the post and time to time squirted some motor oil in them that would help i think. But i probably would only do that in a in close building. other wise water would get in the holes as well. Any thoughts, thanks.

pyper 11-29-2011 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zubin6220 (Post 49463)
I had a pole barn built several years ago and noticed that the 6x6 posts were not set in concrete. I inquired, and was told that it would void the warranty.


Only way to know for sure is to read the warranty.

The two I looked up both exclude wood used as a foundation, specifically excluding "poles". The warranty is nearly useless anyway. It only covers the cost of replacement timbers, not the cost of doing the replacement.

I put mine in concrete -- it keeps the termites away, which seems greatest risk around here.

Missouri Bound 11-30-2011 01:33 AM

Pressure treated wood will eventually rot in concrete....not nearly as quickly as untreated, but it WILL eventually. And any structures lateral strength comes from proper construction, not inserting the support members in concrete....fences and utility poles aren't structues.


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