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Old 03-19-2013, 02:05 PM   #1
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Pressure treated lumber for pier decking??


I have managed a 48 slip marina (and 13 office buildings) for the past couple of years. The water here is brackish - part fresh, part salt water. Currently, we need to replace some of the pier decking boards - and the world of pressure treated ratings is rather daunting in determining the best to buy. I know that CCA is no longer used for most pressure treating, so now there is CA-C, CA-B, ACQ and MCA. From what I have been told by marine contractors, the rating I should look for is at least .15 pcf or better - considered Ground Contact. My question is....is the pcf rating system the same for all types of pressure treating -CA-C, CA-B, ACQ and MCA?? Also, the world of MCA seems unregulated. Does anyone have any experience with that type of lumber?
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Old 03-19-2013, 02:36 PM   #2
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http://www.buildingproductsplus.com/...aterials.shtml

According to this you need 2.5 not 1.5
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Old 03-20-2013, 08:42 AM   #3
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Pressure treated lumber for pier decking??


framer is correct.
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Old 03-20-2013, 09:08 AM   #4
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Pressure treated lumber for pier decking??


Quote:
Originally Posted by fixrite View Post
framer is correct.
Actually, 2.5 PCF (pounds per cubic foot) of treatment would be for wood submerged in salt/brackish water, .60 pcf is recommended for decking material that only occasionally has contact with that water (splash water).

.15pcf is fine for decking material that does not come in direct contact with that water.

I've used .15pcf for decking on docks in tidewater for 20 years and have never seen an issue.
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Old 03-20-2013, 09:12 AM   #5
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Pressure treated lumber for pier decking??


Thanks for the info framer and fixrite. I have been told that the 2.5 pcf is used for the beams, stringers, etc. which are in contact with the water either all the time, or often, and that you do not necessarily need that level for the decking boards. However, I will definitely be looking into that.

However, here is my real confusion....Do you know if the pcf rating is the same for all the types of pressure treating? In other words, is 2.5 pcf for ACQ boards the same level of protection as 2.5 for CA-C boards?

Also....How about the MCA treatment....anyone have any advice on this type of pressure treatment which is not yet approved by the AWPA (American Wood Protection Agency)?

Any advice is appreciated.
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Old 03-20-2013, 09:17 AM   #6
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Thanks kwikfishron! I must have been typing my reply at the same time you were. You definitely answered some of my questions. I really appreciated all the answers I have been receiving. I just joined DIY, and I think it will be a great help to me as a marina and property manager.
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Old 03-20-2013, 09:29 AM   #7
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There the same as far as a pound per cubic foot (pcf) is a pcf regardless of the treatment but some treatments require a different pcf level to reach the same result.

Here's a link that may help, scroll almost to the bottom. There are better links out there but I can't seem find them at the moment, I'll post them later if I do.

http://www.wwpinstitute.org/document...an2012_000.pdf
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Old 03-20-2013, 09:45 AM   #8
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GREAT link kwikfishron! Printing it out now. Somehow missed this one is my internet search. Thanks again.
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Old 03-20-2013, 10:35 AM   #9
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Pressure treated lumber for pier decking??


Sorry but I most always err on the side of caution. Paid off in spades for me over the years. I would be most concern with the environmental impact to say the least. Not sure if you have strict guidelines on that where you are or not. Just something to give thought to.

cheers
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Old 03-20-2013, 11:17 AM   #10
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Pressure treated lumber for pier decking??


Here's another good link explaining the different types of treatment. Click on the "Micronized Copper" link on the page to learn more on MCA. http://npic.orst.edu/ingred/ptype/treatwood/types.html

As far as environmental impact and what you should be using for your particular application for whatever region you're in you should contact NPIC directly. Their contact info is located on the page.

Welcome to the forum btw. Adding you basic location to your profile helps since what to do and how to do it varies greatly sometimes from region to region.
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Old 03-20-2013, 11:26 AM   #11
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Google American Wood Protection Association (AWPA) and see what they say.
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Old 03-21-2013, 12:05 PM   #12
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As far as I can tell, the AWPA has not yet "approved" MCA or MCQ pressure treating (Micronized Copper Azole) or any of the micronized copper products.
Here is the AWPA list of rated treatments:
http://www.awpa.com/references/homeowner.asp

However, there seems to be a lot of the MCA out there being sold and supported by the industry. It is sold under several names, but the one I see most is MicroPro. It is less corrosive that the CCA or CA-C which is appealing, but they still recommend the use of stainless steel or hot dip galvanized hardware. If any is interested, here is another very informative article:
http://www.deckmagazine.com/wood/the...ervatives.aspx

I have found a reputable source for the .15 pcf MCA treated #1 boards in both 2x8's and 3x10's ....so at a later date, I will let everyone know how they work out for us. Thanks for all the input.
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Old 03-21-2013, 12:57 PM   #13
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What exactly is "Micronizing," and what does it do? Im thinking making the treating particulates smaller so they saturate more thoroughly???

AWPA is pretty much the authority on treatment of wood, so I would be skeptical if they don't recognize something. It could also be that they have adopted a wait and see attitude too, because how something performs in the field can be very different from what happens in a lab.
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Old 03-21-2013, 01:12 PM   #14
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Pressure treated lumber for pier decking??


jagans...It's enough to make your head spin. Here is the first paragraph in an article that explains "Micronizing"....you may want to also click on the link for even more info:
http://www.deckmagazine.com/lumber/a...ars-over-.aspx
The withdrawal in 2004 of chromated copper arsenate (CCA) from the residential treated-wood market led to a spate of new preservatives such as ammoniacal copper quat (ACQ) and copper azole (CA). Both of those chemicals rely on higher concentrations of copper to pick up the slack left by the absence of chromium and arsenic. While both ACQ and CA are effective preservatives, they are also more corrosive than CCA. Briefly, copper eats steel and aluminum for lunch, and one of the benefits of the now-missing arsenic and chromium was that they made the copper less corrosive. This one-two combination caught a lot of deck builders and hardware manufacturers short, and before long, deck builders were talking about little other than failing flashing, fasteners, and hardware. The wood-treatment industry responded quickly with another generation of preservatives intended to be less corrosive. Notably,Osmose, one of the oldest and largest manufacturers of preservatives, came out with MicroPro, a micronized copper quat (MCQ) formulation. It differs from ACQ and CA mainly in how the copper is dispersed through the treatment chemical. In ACQ and CA, the copper is in an ionic form, which goes into solution easily and combines readily with other elements which in turn is why it helps to corrode other metals. In MCQ, the copper remains in metallic form but is ground extremely finely one micron or less and dispersed in a suspension rather than a solution. A similar process is used to make micronized copper azole (MCA).
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Old 03-21-2013, 01:28 PM   #15
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Thank You, I just read the link and it was what I suspected. You know, it sounds to me that the Koppers creosote treatment with pitch that they used in the old days, (well not so old to me) would still perform the best in salt water, because pitch is not emulsified in water. Your problem....er Opportunity, is much different from the typical guy building a deck in the back yard though.
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