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Old 02-09-2013, 10:03 AM   #1
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Poor caulk job or other?


I have a stone veneer front to my house which was completely replaced. To those that recall, I had pretty severe water damage that I posted some time ago.

Well, several bad contractor choices later, the whole front wall and windows were replaced, but i'm getting water infiltration again. The 2nd floor window seems to be leaking just enough to make the drywall wet directly underneath the window whenever there is a driving rain. The first floor bay window unfortunatley pours water in. I think I fixed the first floor window (serious caulking was needed). Now the issue of the 2nd floor window. I think it's from poor quality caulk that broke, but am not sure if it's also due to the masonry job.

The gap above the stone window ledge. Shouldn't that be caulked with masonry caulk?
Poor caulk job or other?-2013-02-06_16-23-06_573.jpg

Corner of window. I noticed a little separation of the masonry which I gather is expected. However, should that gap be caulked? When I got up close, I noticed duct tape on the corner. Not sure if that was to protect the flashing or what.
Poor caulk job or other?-2013-02-06_16-28-26_370.jpg
Picture of the cracked caulk after < 6 months. I guess they used an acrylic versus silicone-based. Would that cracking allow sufficient water in during a driving rain to cause the drywall underneath to become soft to the touch? It's cracked like that along the whole length of the window.
Poor caulk job or other?-2013-02-06_16-29-04_662.jpg

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Old 02-09-2013, 10:23 AM   #2
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Poor caulk job or other?


If the windows and coil trim had of been installed correctly there would be 0 need for caulking, it's more for looks on the outside.
Were that 45 deg. angle is the bottom piece was suppost to run all the way across then the vertical piece gets the angled cut just for looks and there would be no need for any caulking.
That horizontal piece over the sill should have been bent so it came out over that stone then bent down so there would be no gap under the window showing.
Now you have a ledge were water can sit there and get in.
You do not want a silcone caulking, something like this is a royal pain to work with but would have been much better.
http://www.osipro.com/products.pl?id=H2U

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Old 02-09-2013, 03:25 PM   #3
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Poor caulk job or other?


caulk is NEVER a substitute for poor work,,, good advice, joe !
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Old 02-09-2013, 03:57 PM   #4
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Poor caulk job or other?


Holy poop, someone agreed with me, yaa. lol
It's so frustrating to have to sit here and see some of the building 101 mistakes we see everyday from some so called Pro's that know better but do not seem to care.

Last edited by joecaption; 02-09-2013 at 04:24 PM.
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Old 02-09-2013, 04:20 PM   #5
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Poor caulk job or other?


I remember your post about the windows leaking. You really had all the stone veneer replaced? Can you post a photos of the entire front of the house with the new veneer.

Here was your outside sho photo from before:
Attached Thumbnails
Poor caulk job or other?-water3.jpg  

Last edited by hammerlane; 02-10-2013 at 09:50 AM.
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Old 02-10-2013, 08:52 AM   #6
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Poor caulk job or other?


Quote:
Originally Posted by joecaption View Post
If the windows and coil trim had of been installed correctly there would be 0 need for caulking, it's more for looks on the outside.
Were that 45 deg. angle is the bottom piece was suppost to run all the way across then the vertical piece gets the angled cut just for looks and there would be no need for any caulking.
That horizontal piece over the sill should have been bent so it came out over that stone then bent down so there would be no gap under the window showing.
Not sure I follow how the flashing should have been done? Do you have a pic? Additionally, the flashing was done before the stone masons installed the veneer. Not sure how it could have been bent in that way without the stone installed first? Perhaps it's just my inability to visualize how the flashing should have been installed...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by joecaption View Post
Now you have a ledge were water can sit there and get in.
You do not want a silcone caulking, something like this is a royal pain to work with but would have been much better.
http://www.osipro.com/products.pl?id=H2U
I agree, the stone ledge should have been set at an angle to allow the water to drain at the least. However, I now have this "quality" installation job.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joecaption View Post
Holy poop, someone agreed with me, yaa. lol
It's so frustrating to have to sit here and see some of the building 101 mistakes we see everyday from some so called Pro's that know better but do not seem to care.
It's even more frustrating to have paid some "Pro" and gave me shoddy work


Is there a way to remediate the issues without removing stonework or reinstallation of windows? Which is why I was thinking masonry caulk to fill that gap under the flashing and then recaulking the window itself (as the caulk was broken anyway. )
I do have quite a bit of extra stone that could be used so material costs shouldn't be that excessive if some stonework needs to be removed. I may have to buy new window ledger stones if it can't be reused, but that's not too expensive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hammerlane View Post
I remember your post about the windows leaking. You really had all the stone veneer replaced. Can you post a photos of the entire front of the house with the new veneer.

Here was your outside sho photo from before:
Here was a picture when they removed just the veneer. Notice the huge areas with no OSB. It was totally dissolved from constant water. The insulation also held a ton of water against the osb and studs. Almost the entire front of that portion of the house did have to be rebuilt, studs and all. I had many pictures taken during the construction/rebuild phase, but unfotunately cannot find them for the live of me. I had a webcam running as well (was going to make one of those stop-gap rebuild movies) but lost most of the pics after the demo

Poor caulk job or other?-frontrepair20120413_100816_0.jpg
Poor caulk job or other?-frontrepair20120413_132544_2.jpg
I'll post a pic of the outside when I get a chance to snap one today. It looks similar with the exception the stone is a little darker color.

Last edited by dengle; 02-10-2013 at 08:59 AM. Reason: added another pic
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Old 02-10-2013, 09:25 AM   #7
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Poor caulk job or other?


I'm on a lap top, but here's sort of an idea of how it should have been bent.
There was suppost to be something like this at the top and bottom of the window.
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=...lectedIndex=27
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Old 02-10-2013, 10:09 AM   #8
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Poor caulk job or other?


Would be nice to see photos of the area around the windows before the stone veneer started going back up.

Do you know if weep holes were installed anywhere??

Below are a few pics of weep hole/tubes.

Also here is a good read about :Without proper flashing, heavy-duty building paper, and weep holes, walls behind cast-stone veneer can get wet


http://www.thehomeinspector.com/Clie...ightmares.html
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Poor caulk job or other?-weep.jpg   Poor caulk job or other?-100_6661.jpg   Poor caulk job or other?-100_9657.jpg  
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Old 02-10-2013, 12:11 PM   #9
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Poor caulk job or other?


I'm still learning this stuff....but as I understand it....as Joe said, caulk should not really be needed if everything is flashed correctly. Basically, water should be able to flow down the back of the rock and not get anything wet.

The rock is not there to keep out the water.....
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Old 02-10-2013, 12:28 PM   #10
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Poor caulk job or other?


To my knowledge, there were not any weep holes put anywhere Ugh, looks like I've been shafted yet again.

I do have a webcam video of the complete tear-down to repair to where they were (almost) ready for the masonry. I have to reassemble it so it's smaller as right now it's over 2 hours long @ 350mb.

I was home for the mason work, but was not knowledgeable enough to know they weren't doing things right.

The masons wire-meshed over the tar-paper (I did have the prior contractor use the heaviest paper available), skim-coated, then put the stones on top of that. To my knowledge, there wasn't much (if anything) done for water remediation/handling. Unfortunately the webcam images of the stonework being put up were lost.

Once I reassemble the video to be a bit smaller in size (and length!) I'll post it so you guys can tell me just how badly i've been ed over.
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Old 02-10-2013, 12:40 PM   #11
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Poor caulk job or other?


Had a few seconds to take some pics.

Front of new stone-work.
Poor caulk job or other?-2013-02-10_12-30-51_390.jpg

Bay window: The trim at the top of the mini-roof had about 1/2-3/4" gap where I think the water infiltration for the bay window was occurring. As the shingles were black anyway, I used black rubberized roof patch in a tube to fill the gap. We haven't had a driving rain since I did it so can't verify if the leak was resolved.
Poor caulk job or other?-2013-02-10_12-31-26_368.jpg

Another pic of the bay roof-line.
Poor caulk job or other?-2013-02-10_12-31-56_103.jpg

There are no weep holes to be seen anywhere and I don't recall the masons inserting any either.
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Old 02-10-2013, 12:48 PM   #12
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Poor caulk job or other?


When you get some reading time, a good source of information is from the Brick Institute Association technical notes.

The #7 notes deal with water penetration issuues.

http://www.gobrick.com/TechnicalNote...4/Default.aspx
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Old 02-11-2013, 06:44 PM   #13
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Poor caulk job or other?


About a week's worth of work crammed into 9ish minutes(about 82mb):

Stop-Gap video of demo and rebuild

I think i lost a day or half-day as the 2nd floor window went from missing to installed. Probably during the time that it was recording in the garage

I wish the quality was better, but you get a general idea.

So my question now... What is the best way to remediate versus the practical way the water infiltration issue I mentioned?

I gather the best way would be pull the stone from around the window, redo the flashing properly and replace the stone and install the window sill stone at an angle to aid drainage.

Any suggestions on less sure (and less expensive) but potentially satisfactory ways of remediation?

I understand caulking is not a substitute for proper construction techniques. However, given that the "pros" well... weren't... I'm looking for viable alternatives.
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Old 09-25-2013, 12:51 PM   #14
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Poor caulk job or other?


As an update, I used masonry caulk and filled in that gap and also recaulked the window framing (between the window and the flashing) as it was cracking already.

Since then no water! While it's not perfect in that it shouldn't have been needed in the first place, I'll take functional for now and learn my lessons for next time (hopefully there won't BE a next time!)
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Old 09-25-2013, 01:16 PM   #15
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Poor caulk job or other?


A structure whose components are configured to properly shed water is low to no maintenance. If it is not and caulks or sealants are introduced to make up for those deficiencies, that turns it into a medium to high maintenance structure. Expect to get up there at least a few times per year to reinspect your patches and to have to re do them at some point. Otherwise they will leak again.

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Last edited by eharri3; 09-25-2013 at 01:19 PM.
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