DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum

DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum (http://www.diychatroom.com/)
-   Building & Construction (http://www.diychatroom.com/f19/)
-   -   Plumbing, ducting, venting, roofing, who's job is whose? (http://www.diychatroom.com/f19/plumbing-ducting-venting-roofing-whos-job-whose-156351/)

daluu 09-09-2012 11:30 PM

Plumbing, ducting, venting, roofing, who's job is whose?
 
I'm a bit perplexed how certain home construction or remodeling work is divied up, in terms of who does what. Perhaps someone can enlighten me, clarifying how this gray area of work is divided up in terms of whose role it is to do the work.

Plumbing work is easily defined, except when we're talking about plumbing vents that go up the roof with a flashing.

Then there's ductwork for gas exhaust and bath/kitchen range hood fan vents, the portion that's in the attic and walls, and the portion that goes up to the roof as flue vent.

Then there's the weatherhead connection for overhead utility lines to go into the home that also has a flashing.

In talking to a roofer about roof issues and an electrician to replace bath fan, they said to consult a licensed HVAC contractor to look at and fix the ducting for fan exhaust to roof (if it needed work) or to relocate the ducting to address roof issue.

So first question is how do you find an HVAC contractor to do that kind of ductwork? Do most HVAC companies do that work, as they seem to just advertise working on heating and AC systems, or installing/repairing/cleaning those ductwork, typically no mention of bath/fan exhaust ducting, and ducting to roof, etc. Or find a general contractor?

Second question (or set of questions):

What does a roofer do and not do with respect to vents on the roof and their flashings?

What does an electrician do and not do with respect to bath/range fans and their vent ductwork, and with respect to weatherhead connection from the roof to the electrical panel?

What does a plumber do and not do with respect to plumbing vents in the house all the way up to the roof?

What does an HVAC contractor/company do and not do with respect to ductwork and vents, in the house, attic, and roof?

And who would one consult to relocate plumbing vents and fan/gas exhaust vents at the roof intersection (assume the portion of pipes, ducts in house/wall left intact, only modifying the portion in the attic to the roof.)?

Thanks in advance for putting up with some many related questions, but it seems to me this is an area that's not well defined for novices to understand.

mae-ling 09-09-2012 11:42 PM

Most put the pipes through the roof and it is up to the roofer to flash them.
In new construction anyway.

AtlanticWBConst. 09-10-2012 06:40 AM

Some aspects are also governed (dictated) by what local building code laws stipulate & require.

Example: Not long ago, MA passed a law that required - for Kitchen and Bathroom exhaust venting (commercial & residential) - That such work must be performed by a Licensed Sheetmetal Worker, and that a separate permit must be acquired for that particular work.

joecaption 09-10-2012 07:11 AM

Nothing would surprize me when it comes to MA. I used to live in NH. and did some work in MA.

If you hire one good General Contractor he will have all the contacts and will take care of all the scheduling and hiring of all the subs he works with all the time.
If you try and do a GC's job one time to try and save money you will soon learn why it's worth every penny he or she gets.

daluu 09-10-2012 01:29 PM

Thanks for the replies.

In general at least, is plumbing vent work in attic a job typically for plumber or HVAC contractor? How about exhaust ducting? I may want/need to relocate some ducts and vents by a few feet in the attic/roof. Due to limited space in attic, perhaps best done when roof is reroofed to have access from the roof.

Gymschu 09-10-2012 05:00 PM

Any plumbing vent work is the responsibility of the plumber. Any thing that involves water usually falls under the work of your plumber. The HVAC guys do the venting for the furnace. They rarely punch holes up through the roof anymore........they usually vent to an outside wall.

And, yes, I would wait til you reroof before redoing the vents, especially in a tight-spaced attic. At that time you can remove sheathing to get to the pipes and redo them.

hand drive 09-10-2012 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daluu (Post 1006994)
Thanks for the replies.

In general at least, is plumbing vent work in attic a job typically for plumber or HVAC contractor? How about exhaust ducting? I may want/need to relocate some ducts and vents by a few feet in the attic/roof. Due to limited space in attic, perhaps best done when roof is reroofed to have access from the roof.

it is best to have the electrician wire it up while the plumber or hvac guy vents it and sticks the pipe through the roof( with his hammer) and the carpenter fixes the big hole in the roof while the roofer flashes the pipe...

daluu 09-10-2012 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hand drive (Post 1007326)
it is best to have the electrician wire it up while the plumber or hvac guy vents it and sticks the pipe through the roof( with his hammer) and the carpenter fixes the big hole in the roof while the roofer flashes the pipe...

Sigh, I figured something like that. That's a lot of work coordinating contractors. Or need to find a "good" general contractor to help with that, and that's not easy finding a good one (or is it?).

And how would you find a good general contractor in general? It's not like they list themselves easy to find in Yellow Pages, etc. right?

hand drive 09-11-2012 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daluu (Post 1007395)
Sigh, I figured something like that. That's a lot of work coordinating contractors. Or need to find a "good" general contractor to help with that, and that's not easy finding a good one (or is it?).

And how would you find a good general contractor in general? It's not like they list themselves easy to find in Yellow Pages, etc. right?


there are people that know more than one trade but it is a little of this and a little of that, not full knowledge of one particular trade.

you have to take it in stages, each stage correlates with a particular trade and when one stage is complete move to the next. One of the main problems is each stage really depends on the other and that is always the most difficult part because of the get in and get out mentality of the tradesman, and not taking the time to communicate so a good GC helps connect them all together in my opinion. Anyone can be a GC you just have to know what stage comes first and which comes last. :)

AtlanticWBConst. 09-11-2012 07:32 AM

I cannot speak for everyone (every trade subcontractor and what they include, and don't include), but this is essentially the gist of things:

1.) When we GC a project: Experience dictates what processes need to be performed with venting (in other words, we know ahead of time, how things will go, and what needs to be "accounted" for). In some instances, we are responsible for demo-ing out areas for venting and duct work installations. We are responsible for all roof and side wall penetrations and the subsequent sealing of those penetrations (venting locations). That includes all roofing, siding, etc. The plumber, or HVAC person just cuts the hole and installs the venting.

We always include that work description (of finishing, and sealing newly installed vent locations) in writing - in all proposals and in all contracts.

- With Bathroom & Kitchen Stove exhaust vents, the Electrician installs the mechanical vent unit and wires it up. We install the exterior vent cover, and connect an insulated duct line to the ceiling mounted vent unit.
- With sewage exhausts, the Plumber discusses the location of the vent penetration point prior, and then cuts it in, and installs it. We seal it up, weather tight.
- With HVAC related venting, the HVAC Co. installs the venting & ductwork, and we seal it up, weather tight.

2.) When a Home Owner Manages their own projects: 99.9% of the time, the lack of experience will put them in the following position - You have hired out the various aspects and trades to subcontractors. (Remember, that it is not their responsibility to manage the Home Owner's project phases - its not included).
They are hired to do their part of the job only, and they do it.

They do their installations, the Home Owners sees that there are aspects that are not completed.

The HO says, "hey, its not finished, its not sealed, its not connected, its not done....etc ???"

The specific Trade Subcontractor says: "Oh, I don't do that, someone else comes in and does that...." = Common situation.

Who's responsible?

That needs to be determined and planned-out ahead of time.

So: You need to ask your individual subcontractors these questions (that you listed) BEFORE hand, so that you can get the work organized, get your estimates accurate, and get the work phases completed.
If a Sub states that they don't do a particular aspect, then get another sub to include it in their work scope estimate (and then move-on to the next phase):

Quote:

Originally Posted by daluu (Post 1006704)


So first question is how do you find an HVAC contractor to do that kind of ductwork?

Do most HVAC companies do that work, as they seem to just advertise working on heating and AC systems, or installing/repairing/cleaning those ductwork, typically no mention of bath/fan exhaust ducting, and ducting to roof, etc. Or find a general contractor?


Second question (or set of questions):


What does a roofer do and not do with respect to vents on the roof and their flashings?


What does an electrician do and not do with respect to bath/range fans and their vent ductwork, and with respect to weatherhead connection from the roof to the electrical panel?

What does a plumber do and not do with respect to plumbing vents in the house all the way up to the roof?


What does an HVAC contractor/company do and not do with respect to ductwork and vents, in the house, attic, and roof?


And who would one consult to relocate plumbing vents and fan/gas exhaust vents at the roof intersection (assume the portion of pipes, ducts in house/wall left intact, only modifying the portion in the attic to the roof.)?


daluu 09-11-2012 01:27 PM

Thanks for the thorough explanation AtlanticWBConst.

All that is understandable. For an (inexperienced) homeowner, I think the hard part is finding a good GC to do that for you. How to find one and how to find one that is good.

NeetWork 11-07-2012 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AtlanticWBConst.
I cannot speak for everyone (every trade subcontractor and what they include, and don't include), but this is essentially the gist of things:

1.) When we GC a project: Experience dictates what processes need to be performed with venting (in other words, we know ahead of time, how things will go, and what needs to be "accounted" for). In some instances, we are responsible for demo-ing out areas for venting and duct work installations. We are responsible for all roof and side wall penetrations and the subsequent sealing of those penetrations (venting locations). That includes all roofing, siding, etc. The plumber, or HVAC person just cuts the hole and installs the venting.

We always include that work description (of finishing, and sealing newly installed vent locations) in writing - in all proposals and in all contracts.

- With Bathroom & Kitchen Stove exhaust vents, the Electrician installs the mechanical vent unit and wires it up. We install the exterior vent cover, and connect an insulated duct line to the ceiling mounted vent unit.
- With sewage exhausts, the Plumber discusses the location of the vent penetration point prior, and then cuts it in, and installs it. We seal it up, weather tight.
- With HVAC related venting, the HVAC Co. installs the venting & ductwork, and we seal it up, weather tight.

2.) When a Home Owner Manages their own projects: 99.9% of the time, the lack of experience will put them in the following position - You have hired out the various aspects and trades to subcontractors. (Remember, that it is not their responsibility to manage the Home Owner's project phases - its not included).
They are hired to do their part of the job only, and they do it.

They do their installations, the Home Owners sees that there are aspects that are not completed.

The HO says, "hey, its not finished, its not sealed, its not connected, its not done....etc ???"

The specific Trade Subcontractor says: "Oh, I don't do that, someone else comes in and does that...." = Common situation.

Who's responsible?

That needs to be determined and planned-out ahead of time.

So: You need to ask your individual subcontractors these questions (that you listed) BEFORE hand, so that you can get the work organized, get your estimates accurate, and get the work phases completed.
If a Sub states that they don't do a particular aspect, then get another sub to include it in their work scope estimate (and then move-on to the next phase):

You're the best!

NeetWork 11-07-2012 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AtlanticWBConst.
I cannot speak for everyone (every trade subcontractor and what they include, and don't include), but this is essentially the gist of things:

1.) When we GC a project: Experience dictates what processes need to be performed with venting (in other words, we know ahead of time, how things will go, and what needs to be "accounted" for). In some instances, we are responsible for demo-ing out areas for venting and duct work installations. We are responsible for all roof and side wall penetrations and the subsequent sealing of those penetrations (venting locations). That includes all roofing, siding, etc. The plumber, or HVAC person just cuts the hole and installs the venting.

We always include that work description (of finishing, and sealing newly installed vent locations) in writing - in all proposals and in all contracts.

- With Bathroom & Kitchen Stove exhaust vents, the Electrician installs the mechanical vent unit and wires it up. We install the exterior vent cover, and connect an insulated duct line to the ceiling mounted vent unit.
- With sewage exhausts, the Plumber discusses the location of the vent penetration point prior, and then cuts it in, and installs it. We seal it up, weather tight.
- With HVAC related venting, the HVAC Co. installs the venting & ductwork, and we seal it up, weather tight.

2.) When a Home Owner Manages their own projects: 99.9% of the time, the lack of experience will put them in the following position - You have hired out the various aspects and trades to subcontractors. (Remember, that it is not their responsibility to manage the Home Owner's project phases - its not included).
They are hired to do their part of the job only, and they do it.

They do their installations, the Home Owners sees that there are aspects that are not completed.

The HO says, "hey, its not finished, its not sealed, its not connected, its not done....etc ???"

The specific Trade Subcontractor says: "Oh, I don't do that, someone else comes in and does that...." = Common situation.

Who's responsible?

That needs to be determined and planned-out ahead of time.

So: You need to ask your individual subcontractors these questions (that you listed) BEFORE hand, so that you can get the work organized, get your estimates accurate, and get the work phases completed.
If a Sub states that they don't do a particular aspect, then get another sub to include it in their work scope estimate (and then move-on to the next phase):

Atlantic,

I wonder if you'll be able to guesstimate what it might cost to hire a pro to do the duct work for a kitchen range hood? Locations is about 12' front the outer wall on the first floor of the house.

Thanks

AtlanticWBConst. 11-08-2012 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeetWork (Post 1047152)
Atlantic,

I wonder if you'll be able to guesstimate what it might cost to hire a pro to do the duct work for a kitchen range hood? Locations is about 12' front the outer wall on the first floor of the house.

Thanks

Cannot do.

Its like asking me to guess your weight, hair color, and height, over the internet.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:31 PM.


Copyright 2003-2014 Escalate Media LP. All Rights Reserved