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Old 04-06-2011, 07:38 PM   #1
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Patio help


I am excavating under am old deck to pour a patio slab. It's an L-shape, about 300 sq ft when you include the grass (under the chair) and the area under the blue tarp.

See photo.

I'm having trouble deciding how to tackle expansion joints and whether or not to use mesh. The original slab on the house is only 3".

We are digging for a 4" slab on about 2" of gravel/dirt. Very sandy with some clay here in South TX.

Also, trying to learn the best way to put joints up against the existing slab. There is one joint on the sidewalk but it's about 1.25" wide.

Thoughts? New to all of this. Taking my time and reading everything. Thanks.
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Old 04-06-2011, 09:52 PM   #2
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Patio help


I'd remove the current patio and pour it all at one time unless you're covering it with pavers or stone.
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Old 04-07-2011, 05:08 PM   #3
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we'd place expansion jnt mtl against the structure & pour w/o against the existing,,, expect you'll need 2 sawcut contraction jnts OR, if you're lucky, a groover will place them - deep as poss,,, the hydrating conc will shrink against the existing so you won't need exp jnt mtl there.
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if you hear it from a guy in the apron store, be VERY suspicious the mtl/method will work,,, when it time to build something together, they won't answer phones NOR help
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Old 04-12-2011, 01:04 PM   #4
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If you PM me your email I would like to send you a diagram of the whole thing...questions about what to put in certain spots.
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Old 04-12-2011, 05:03 PM   #5
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I agree with IRC on the placement of the expansion material, it's only needed against the house in this situation.

As for the control joints, I'd place one each way at the existing 90 degree corner and every square should be a max. of 10' by 10'. Smaller is better here. If you put a diagram here in the thread, it would be easy to say "yea or nay"......
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Old 04-12-2011, 10:55 PM   #6
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Patio help


The green are the edges of the house and driveway.

The orange are proposed joints. The hatched blue is the existing slab/sidewalk.

Just a little unsure about how to mate the bottom right area to the house and driveway and the top right to the house.

Thanks.
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Old 04-12-2011, 11:48 PM   #7
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Here is a good read, while waiting for the pros; http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=...5JDzFuGKgPMG6Q

Gary
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Old 04-12-2011, 11:57 PM   #8
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Your joint pattern looks fine.

As for the rest, hopefully this makes sense:


Patio help-dcb134e5.jpg
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Old 04-13-2011, 01:45 PM   #9
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Patio help


Thanks for notating that.

I fear dowels may be above my experience as this is my first project and the existing slab shown by the builders is barely 3".

Also, what would YOU use for the expansion joints? Fiber strips? 1x4 (whole or ripped in half)?

Also, what's a reliable way to stand up and secure those [orange] joints during pouring. It's a one-day job for the concrete guy.

Thanks
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Old 04-13-2011, 03:14 PM   #10
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Who is going to work the concrete when it gets poured?
Ron
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Old 04-13-2011, 03:38 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dornier View Post
Thanks for notating that.

I fear dowels may be above my experience as this is my first project and the existing slab shown by the builders is barely 3".

Your choice, but I'd attempt to install 3/8" rebar dowels every 2-3' and just favor the bottom of the existing slab with the drilled hole.

Also, what would YOU use for the expansion joints? Fiber strips? 1x4 (whole or ripped in half)?

No to the wood, but the black fiber material, or recycled rubber, are usually the simplest, effective approach.

Also, what's a reliable way to stand up and secure those [orange] joints during pouring. It's a one-day job for the concrete guy.

Thanks
If I understand you correctly you're asking about the control joints. Those are either sawn in the next day (or the same with the right equipment) of you just have them tooled in right away. They are only topical, at least 1/4 the thickness, rather than intersecting the entire cross section of the slab.
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Old 04-14-2011, 09:12 AM   #12
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A local concrete company is pouring/finishing.

I was under the impression those "orange" areas would be their own bays--except that it's all being poured in one day.

Why wouldn't those be expansion joints rather than just sawn?
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Old 04-14-2011, 09:59 AM   #13
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The orange joints do nothing more than offer a stress relief for the concrete when it's under tension (curing). Type I concrete will never expand larger than it's size at which it was placed, although it will shrink. You need a simple control joint there to literally control where it cracks. Expansion joints in small residential work is generally only needed where completely separate structures come together, as in a frost protected house or garage meet a simple slab-on-grade patio or driveway. It also serves as a bond-breaker between two pours.
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Old 04-14-2011, 10:00 AM   #14
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there's no need for expansion jnts in a new ' pour ' as ' contraction ' jnts will either be sawed or grooved,,, expansion jnt mtl needs to be placed against the structure but no where else in this job.

exp jnt mtl is also used for ' isolation ' jnts which can add to your confusion
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Old 04-15-2011, 02:29 PM   #15
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Patio help


Thanks, everyone.

If I wasn't going the dowell road, could I put one of the flexible joint strips instead?

I had a friend tell me to just pour right against the old slab.

Anyone have photos of their works in progress? Just curious.

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