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Old 11-04-2010, 07:30 AM   #1
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Passthru in Load Bearing Wall - Graphic Included


http://<a href="http://s160.photobuc...Passthru"></a>

I am hoping that this crude graphic will help to explain a little better. There is a wall in between my very tiny kitchen and very tiny dining room. For the sake of argument I am assuming it is a load bearing wall. (there is what appears to be a header, and I know the garage wall is directly underneath it.) So all that being saiding, is it SAFE to remove 3 to 4 studs, LEAVING the end stud and possibly sistering a 2x4 to the end stud to make it a 4x4? My wife wants to remove the wall back to about the fourth stud completely, I am not sure if it is a load bearing wall or now, so I offered this option to her. If I can clarify any information or give any additional information please just say so. The wall I want to put the passthru in is approximately 6' long I am looking to make the passthru about 3'?

Thank You all I have ALWAYS received good input from everyone on this site and GREATLY APPRECIATE it all!
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Old 11-04-2010, 08:21 AM   #2
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Passthru in Load Bearing Wall - Graphic Included


Did you take the covering off the wall to expose the "header"? I could not get your graphic to come up, so I am going off your words only. If this is a load bearing wall, it is NOT SAFE to remove any studs without installing a properly sized header. If there is an existing header, you need to determine the size of the header, and how many studs it is capable of replacing. The header also needs to be properly designed.

For a header this short, you may be able to use tables in the local building code to size the header. The size will depend on how much load it is carrying, which depends on the geometry of the house and the load per floor. Definitely talk to your building inspector, as you are almost certainly going to need a building permit, and the inspector can probably help you decide how large a header you need. In some jurisdictions, the building inspector may insist on an engineered plan for the header, but the only way to find out is to ask.

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Old 11-04-2010, 09:39 AM   #3
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Passthru in Load Bearing Wall - Graphic Included


the studs are standard 2x4s? if so they may not do much load bearing
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Old 11-05-2010, 10:17 AM   #4
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Passthru in Load Bearing Wall - Graphic Included


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the studs are standard 2x4s? if so they may not do much load bearing
Yes the studs ARE only 2 x 4's, I am NOT sure it IS a loadbearing wall. One kitchen guy that came out to give us an estimate said he did construction for 12 years, and was 90% sure it was NOT a LB wall. BUT he is a kitchen refacing salesman! LOL I can not find anywhere on the internet anything that says if a is a and b is b then yes it is a LB wall or not?
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Old 11-05-2010, 10:18 AM   #5
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Passthru in Load Bearing Wall - Graphic Included


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Originally Posted by Daniel Holzman View Post
Did you take the covering off the wall to expose the "header"? I could not get your graphic to come up, so I am going off your words only. If this is a load bearing wall, it is NOT SAFE to remove any studs without installing a properly sized header. If there is an existing header, you need to determine the size of the header, and how many studs it is capable of replacing. The header also needs to be properly designed.

For a header this short, you may be able to use tables in the local building code to size the header. The size will depend on how much load it is carrying, which depends on the geometry of the house and the load per floor. Definitely talk to your building inspector, as you are almost certainly going to need a building permit, and the inspector can probably help you decide how large a header you need. In some jurisdictions, the building inspector may insist on an engineered plan for the header, but the only way to find out is to ask.
No I have NOT removed any of the outter/drywall yet, MAY get to that this weekend or early next week.

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Old 11-05-2010, 10:23 AM   #6
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Passthru in Load Bearing Wall - Graphic Included


the bottom line is you have to tear it out to see. if it's an in proper LB wall then you'll should install a proper one. have you considered getting a structure engineer to look at it if you are not sure?
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Old 11-05-2010, 10:23 AM   #7
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Passthru in Load Bearing Wall - Graphic Included


Just to be sure, I would header it since you are only opening up 3' Just do it like you do a window. It would be sharp to arch the top of the opening if you like that look.
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Old 11-06-2010, 06:50 PM   #8
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Passthru in Load Bearing Wall - Graphic Included


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the studs are standard 2x4s? if so they may not do much load bearing
Please don't post if you have no knowledge of construction. You could cause someone to severly damage their house. Load bearing walls are very commonly made with 2x4 studs.
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Old 11-08-2010, 06:15 AM   #9
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Passthru in Load Bearing Wall - Graphic Included


Passthru in Load Bearing Wall - Graphic Included-5157391055_438f988bf1.jpg

Here is the picture of the wall in question with the Sheetrock removed. So I am thinking IS a load bearing wall! Correct? The studs are 16" on center. The opening represents the the total width of the opening. So there for I would only be removing the one stud. (and of course trying to reroute those wires) IS it safe to remove the one stud, add another stud where the edge of the drywall is! My basic idea is to frame it out as a window (as has been suggested) (Cripplers, headers etc) Would this be acceptable and still retain structural integrity?

THANK YOU EVERYONE for your help!
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Old 11-08-2010, 07:49 AM   #10
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Passthru in Load Bearing Wall - Graphic Included


That certainly looks like a load bearing wall. There is a double 2x4 post visible on the right side, and a double 2x4 top plate. However, the only way to be certain if it is a load bearing wall is to look above the wall to see if the joists cross it perpendicularly, and bear on the wall. My bet is they do, but again, you HAVE TO LOOK to be sure.

Assuming it is a load bearing wall, and you want to remove one stud, that would leave you with a 32 inch opening requiring a header. In my jurisdiction, that would require a 2x6 header. This may be somewhat oversized, however interpretation of code is local, and that's the way the code official reads the rules around here. In your jurisdiction, they might allow you to use the double top plate and not require a new header. The only way to know is to ask the local code enforcement official.
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Old 11-08-2010, 08:24 AM   #11
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Passthru in Load Bearing Wall - Graphic Included


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Originally Posted by Daniel Holzman View Post
Assuming it is a load bearing wall, and you want to remove one stud, that would leave you with a 32 inch opening requiring a header. In my jurisdiction, that would require a 2x6 header. This may be somewhat oversized, however interpretation of code is local, and that's the way the code official reads the rules around here. In your jurisdiction, they might allow you to use the double top plate and not require a new header. The only way to know is to ask the local code enforcement official.
Dan, Thank you for your quick reply, Sorry to be a pest, but I have another question. You can't tell from the picture, but the next stud IS at 32", BUT I intend on putting in a double 2x4 (cripler?) where the drywall is cut. The next stud (the one at 32") is approximately 6" inside the dryway) So what I am trying to say is I would have a double stud at about 27" - 28". Along with trimmer studs. IF I do this my wall will be safe and my second floor will not become my first!?
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Old 11-08-2010, 10:05 AM   #12
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Passthru in Load Bearing Wall - Graphic Included


Just talk to your local code enforcement official. They have probably seen this many times, they can tell you exactly what they want. This is NOT an engineering issue, this is a code issue. If for some reason you do not want to talk to the code official, well then you are off the map, and you can do whatever you feel comfortable with. I am not in a position to guarantee that performing non-code compliant work is safe, suitable, or appropriate to this situation. The definition of code compliant work in this case is that your work meets with the approval of the local code enforcement official.
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Old 11-08-2010, 10:33 AM   #13
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Passthru in Load Bearing Wall - Graphic Included


Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Holzman View Post
Just talk to your local code enforcement official. They have probably seen this many times, they can tell you exactly what they want. This is NOT an engineering issue, this is a code issue. If for some reason you do not want to talk to the code official, well then you are off the map, and you can do whatever you feel comfortable with. I am not in a position to guarantee that performing non-code compliant work is safe, suitable, or appropriate to this situation. The definition of code compliant work in this case is that your work meets with the approval of the local code enforcement official.
Dan, I understand and Thank You! I was just asking from a structural standpoint, wasn't trying to get you to say something you are comfortable with. I do appreciate you help. I have a friend in out L & I department, will give him a shout. Thanks again
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Old 11-08-2010, 02:07 PM   #14
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Passthru in Load Bearing Wall - Graphic Included


I agree to ask locally. Standard framing here is a double stud on the end of a partition wall as you have , to keep the drywall and corner there from flexing (be stronger). The double top plate is also standard framing here. As said, look above for a load as you said it is bearing on the garage wall.
Gary

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