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Old 09-28-2011, 10:46 PM   #1
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Partition wall supporiting ceiling joists (recommendations for removal)


Hello all,

I have a 60's bungalow in Ontario in which we're planning to remodel the kitchen. Part of our plans include removing two kitchen walls, one of which is bearing the load of the ceiling and ceiling joists.

I say that it's only bearing the ceiling joist load as in the attic we only have rafters with collar ties.



The wall to wall span supported by the ceiling joists is over 22' so the ceiling joists are made up of 2 sections of 2x6" that rest on the partition wall.

This partition wall is ~26" away from the i-beam in the basement, another reason to assume that only the ceiling load is resting on the parition wall.


I'd like to remove the partition wall and replace it with a steel I-beam (w150x22), one end of the i-beam will rest in the wall pocket on top of the foundation wall.

The other end becomes difficult as it creates a point load that currently has nothing below it. Additionally the location of the point load is right at the bottom of the stairs into the basement.

I'm wondering if it would be sufficient to sister two 2x10" joists in the basement and add blocking below the location of the point load. The i-beam point load would be resting on top of two joists that are sistered and have blocking added.

I've tried to get a structural engineer in however I've now called three and none have returned my calls. So the search for engineering continues, but I'd like to move forward with my planning as much as I can.

Here is a quick layout of the existing kitchen:



Here's the what I'm proposing:


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Old 09-29-2011, 12:49 AM   #2
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Partition wall supporiting ceiling joists (recommendations for removal)


By removing the wall that holds up the ceiling joists causes no problem. Since your house has a hand cut roof, all load is carried in the rafter itself.

You MUST put a support beam in where the wall has been removed. Even though your ceiling joist are nailed together they will sag with out a support under them.

Do not affect the lap joint of the ceiling joists, they help hold your walls plumb. Remove too many at once and the weight of your roof will push your exterior walls out of plumb.

I just find it strange that your I beam in the basement picks up your floor joists but not the wall on top. Even though there is pretty much no load on that wall, its still good to point load to the ground..

And for the new I beam point load you are worried about, You will need to span a beam from the existing I beam in the basement to the foundation wall right under your new point load from upstairs.

How long of a span is this new I beam you want to put in?

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Old 09-29-2011, 08:48 AM   #3
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Partition wall supporiting ceiling joists (recommendations for removal)


The span of the new i beam is 19', that's with it supported by a small wall spanning two floor joists (you can see this in the last sketch above). One thing the sketch doesn't show is the hallway wall that is supported over the i beam, I left it out.

Also, I was looking in the building code and the only recommendation I could find for beams was for supporting a floor above, that is why I picked a W150x22. However the i beam in the basement has dimensions of a 3 1/4" flange and 6" high, my understanding is that a W150x22 is 6x6. Isn't it overkill to put a larger i beam on the second floor than I have in the basement?

Is there a smaller size i beam that I could put in place? That would reduce the additional weight that I'm adding to the point load.

With respect to your comment about spanning a beam from the existing i beam to the foundation. Would sistering the existing floor joists produce the same result? I'm not sure how I would add an additional i beam.

Thanks for your reply.
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Old 09-29-2011, 11:57 AM   #4
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Partition wall supporiting ceiling joists (recommendations for removal)


Quote:
Originally Posted by afly007 View Post
The span of the new i beam is 19'
The unsupported span is actually 16', with the remaining 3' being supported by posts hidden in the walls.
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