Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Building & Construction

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 09-20-2006, 09:45 AM   #1
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 3
Share |
Default

Paper or fiber for drywall, butt joints


My hubby just drywalled our new ceiling. I need to tape and plaster it now. I'm wondering about using fiber tape or paper tape. (I don't want to worry about bubbles in my tape.) I think the fiber tape will work well in the factory joints, but I have one butt joint I have to do. That one worries me. Would paper work better for that? Any tricks of the trade for concealing the butt joint?
I also read here that the green bucket works better for the first pass. I just bought the lighter stuff, but can probably do the first round with my leftover green. Does that sound okay? Thanks!
Forgot to add a question. With the fiber tape (it's sticky), do I just put that on without mud first, stick it on and then mud?


Last edited by Teko; 09-20-2006 at 10:14 AM.
Teko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2006, 01:09 PM   #2
DIY'er
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Glastonbury, CT
Posts: 206
Default

Paper or fiber for drywall, butt joints


Hey, Teko

For standard joints I like using the fiber tape, although for corners and the wall/ceiling seam, I like the paper kind. For me the fiber stuff is hard to fold and get even on both sides for an inside corner for example....
Anyway, as for the fibertape, you stick it directly on the joint (no compound underneath) and then on top, hit with a pass of the green pail stuff....It's heavy and better for ebedding the tape. Then you can do the blue for the other coats....how many coats you do kind of depends on how experienced you are with mudding...
As for the butt joint, what I do, is first coat, then hit the middle with a 12 inch blade, then hit with a 14" on each side on subsequent coats to "feather out"...DOnt worry if your joint is suddenly HUGE....That is normal for a butt joint.

Hope that helps...I hate mudding but I have done so much of it out of necessity that I have actually gotten pretty decent at it. Learned by lots of mistakes.

Just a note some guys I talk to dont like the fibertape....I have always had good luck with it and have usually had good looking joints for my projects.

Doug

__________________
Doug Russell

"What if the hokey pokey really IS what its all about."
dougrus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2006, 01:11 PM   #3
They're all fixer-uppers
 
J187's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: MA
Posts: 989
Default

Paper or fiber for drywall, butt joints


The self-adhesive tape goes on first, prior to any coats of mud.

The paper tape goes on a thin bed of mud.

I prefer the paper tape to the self adhesive for all projects. I just find it easier to use and more effective.

For the butt joints you should 'V' them out slightly with a utility knife creating a similar joint to the one you'd get by putting two tapered edges together.

The lightweight stuff is too light for me. I prefer to use either the all purpose (Green lid) or durabond (powder in a bag needing to be mixed). I find that for most regular drywall projects I use the all purpose, but I reach for the durabond when time is of the esscence or I need additional strength.

For corners I like to use the "corner" tape wiht the metal center.
J187 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2006, 01:23 PM   #4
DIY'er
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Glastonbury, CT
Posts: 206
Default

Paper or fiber for drywall, butt joints


I have never used the metal corners, I probably should...much stronger corner I would imagine....
__________________
Doug Russell

"What if the hokey pokey really IS what its all about."
dougrus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2006, 01:34 PM   #5
They're all fixer-uppers
 
J187's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: MA
Posts: 989
Default

Paper or fiber for drywall, butt joints


Doug, oh yeah, its much stronger and makes for a much cleaner corner...



Its super easy to apply and really helps in areas where there is a small gap between wall and ceiling. The also sell identical stuff, only much wider, in precut sections the same way you'd buy metal corner bead. The paper really bits into the mud well. I love the stuff.
J187 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2006, 02:51 PM   #6
DIY'er
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Glastonbury, CT
Posts: 206
Default

Paper or fiber for drywall, butt joints


In the past few years I have done enough drywall to last me the rest of my life (huge basement, enclosed porch, bathroom,kitchen ceiling) I always feel like corners are impossible to get perfect...I end up doing like four passes...I feel like redoing the corners in the bath just to try em out...
Wait....no I dont....Ill wait for bath #2 this winter...
Did you get em at a supply house or do they have em at the big boxes...? dont think Ive seen it...but then again I wasnt looking.
I love the outside corners like the ones you describe...just never thought about if the made em for insides....
One of those things you just make do and suffer with like an idiot for no apparent reason...
Thanks
__________________
Doug Russell

"What if the hokey pokey really IS what its all about."

Last edited by dougrus; 09-20-2006 at 03:02 PM. Reason: another thought
dougrus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2006, 08:08 PM   #7
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 3
Default

Paper or fiber for drywall, butt joints


Thanks so much! Didn't get an answer as fast as I needed, so went ahead with the fiber. I like it this time. Made the time on the ladder much more efficient (I'm old, I only have so many up and downs in a day). Ran the fiber then came back and mudded. And this ceiling looks so good so far (have the last coat to go....)it's scary. As for the butt joints, hubby came up with the idea of taking a 4" grinder and making a groove. A BIG mess, but I think it's going to work out well. I'll keep you posted...my first large ceiling.....
Teko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2006, 08:33 PM   #8
DIY'er
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Glastonbury, CT
Posts: 206
Default

Paper or fiber for drywall, butt joints


For a ceiling, make sure when you are done and have sanded everything, that you try different lighting schemes in the room...all lights on, just the floor lamp, just the overhead lights and so on...check it during the day to see how it looks with all the possible lighting (natural and artificial)...in order to make sure your joints are not too visable...I often do this as well after I prime so I can touch up any spots....
I learned this the hard way when I mudded a ceiling in my old house with all the recessed lights on...everything looked great. I primed and painted...Next night my wife switched on only one set of the lights and bam....looked like crap...eventhough it felt and looked flat, the different lighting brought inperfections to light...Obviously there is no way to get it perfect but I am always surprised what mistakes lighting or lack thereof can bring out in your mudjob.
__________________
Doug Russell

"What if the hokey pokey really IS what its all about."
dougrus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2006, 04:17 PM   #9
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1
Default

Paper or fiber for drywall, butt joints


Rookies, lol

I am a Drywall Finisher by trade, when it comes to finishing drywall I always recommend that people just pay someone who is proficient at it. It usually is one of those tasks that people regret taking on themselves.

Anyways, having said that I hate taking on side jobs, but here is my two cents.

Quote:
My hubby just drywalled our new ceiling. I need to tape and plaster it now. I'm wondering about using fiber tape or paper tape. (I don't want to worry about bubbles in my tape.) I think the fiber tape will work well in the factory joints, but I have one butt joint I have to do. That one worries me. Would paper work better for that? Any tricks of the trade for concealing the butt joint?
I also read here that the green bucket works better for the first pass. I just bought the lighter stuff, but can probably do the first round with my leftover green. Does that sound okay? Thanks!
Forgot to add a question. With the fiber tape (it's sticky), do I just put that on without mud first, stick it on and then mud?
I rarely use fibre tape, in fact the only time I will use it is if I absolutely have to rush a job and even then I am rather reluctant. Paper tape is always prefered as long as it is applied properly. To avoid bubbles in your tape, be sure that your Drywall Compound is thinned down considerably. We professionals use special tools and the mud is actually "pour-able". You'd probably be surprized at how thin we use it.

However, I assume you would be what we call "Dry Taping" where you first apply the mud to the joint and then lay the tape on top. For this type of application your mud should be just thick enough to use with your tools. The thinner the better, but remember you have to work with it and you don't want to make a mess.

To avoid bubbles be sure that all of the paper tape facing the joint is completely embedded in mud. If it doesn't completely soak in the wet mud, it will not bond causing a dryspot that will result in a "bubble" later on.

Butt joints are tricky, even for us professionals. In the tower I am currently working in we are having to redo each and every butt joint. By the nature of the joint, you have to crown them (create a hump in the wall). Drywall really should be manufactured with bevels on the butts as well. My advice here is to avoid butts if you can, and when you do have them spread the mud three times wider than a factory joint. On average my butts are probably at least 30 inches wide.

One last tip. You're better off to apply several thinner coats than one thick coat. Always try to avoid having to sand. Each coat that you apply should be applied as smooth and flat as possible. Sand between coats in the same direction you put the mud on, and this is very important - Each successive coat should completely cover the previous coat.

Good Luck.

Last edited by Taper; 09-21-2006 at 04:49 PM.
Taper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2006, 06:40 PM   #10
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 38
Default

Paper or fiber for drywall, butt joints


Thanks for all the advice. I'm now pretty much done with the ceiling. I'm pretty proud of it so far. I have run lights all over trying to see imperfections. I did have to replaster one joint. You could see it after I primed it. I've redone it and sanded. Looks good, but still have to put some primer on. So all in all, I did a good job. The butt joint (where the grinder came in) actually came out the best. I no longer want to do all the ceilings in my house anymore, I'm just too damned old, but I know I saved a bundle. Wouldn't recommend doing it if you've not spent some time with plaster, but I'm glad I did. Again, thanks for all the help. I feel like I'm at least apprentice grade now LOL

skits is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2006, 12:00 PM   #11
Handyman
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Oakville, Ont, Canada
Posts: 796
Default

Paper or fiber for drywall, butt joints


Stucco!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Lmao
canadaclub is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2006, 01:47 PM   #12
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 1,861
Default

Paper or fiber for drywall, butt joints


I really like the advice for paying for a professional to do the mudding... the problem with this is I will become handycap with this skill for the rest of my life... and anytime my son makes a mark or hole on the wall or some minor projects requires breaking the wall, I will have to have headache thinking about need to pay hundreds for someone to come in rather than give it a smile , thinking I can fix it... so I know it is painful,... but it is a good skill to acquire...
KUIPORNG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2006, 06:57 PM   #13
Lic. Builder/GC/Remodeler
 
AtlanticWBConst.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 7,556
Default

Paper or fiber for drywall, butt joints


Quote:
Originally Posted by KUI****G View Post
I really like the advice for paying for a professional to do the mudding... the problem with this is I will become handycap with this skill for the rest of my life... and anytime my son makes a mark or hole on the wall or some minor projects requires breaking the wall, I will have to have headache thinking about need to pay hundreds for someone to come in rather than give it a smile , thinking I can fix it... so I know it is painful,... but it is a good skill to acquire...
Kui****g,

Just so you know....taping is actually not a skill that you can just... 'pick-up' ..and do after a few small projects. One job can teach you how it is done, but being good at it and doing work that looks 'ok' takes alot of time.
It took me an entire year of doing it fulltime to get good at it and be able to work at a reasonable pace.....and create work that came out 'smooth' and looked right.

Over the years, we have been called in (To repair and finish work) started by many, many embarrassed homeowners and DIYers who attempted to do their own drywall/taping or plaster work that looked more like stucco....
I am not knocking them for at least trying to do it on their own (I applaud their efforts).....it's just that.... it is a skill that takes ALOT of time and 'use' to be able to do properly.

I am not trying to be condescending..... Just thought I would share this point: There are some areas of the trades that take a considerable amount of time and practice to be able to do properly...

Last edited by AtlanticWBConst.; 10-25-2006 at 08:29 PM.
AtlanticWBConst. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2006, 07:59 AM   #14
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 1,861
Default

Paper or fiber for drywall, butt joints


Thanks, AtlanticWBConst, base on your comment, I will try to attack one small unnoticable wall, complete include painting, see the result, by myself and others... if it is no good, I will call in professional... I will also let you know how it goes... I do not have a lot of patient... I suspect I may not be able to do it like you said... I will give it a try though just in case as I heard other people success in doing it also like this poster... Thanks...

KUIPORNG is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Taping drywall joints - fiber glass mesh or paper? RickT Painting 25 04-20-2011 09:09 PM
"Maintenance Free" Siding Materials (Vinyl, Steel, Fiber Cement) diggitydog Building & Construction 12 01-23-2009 04:24 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.