notched out joist ? problem ?

cvcman

Ok first off i realize this house has stood here for over 50 yrs with no problems but...it is a ranch house with 2 x 8 floor joists 16" centers with 1" plywood floors.
The one joist fell right tight to the side of the soil pipe so they notched it out so the hub on the pipe would clear it. They notched out the top and the bottom. I would say the top for abut 3" down is only like 3/4" thick now and the bottom they notched out a chunk like 3" x 2"

it has a pc of 2 x 6 nailed and screwed to the back side which im not sure does much..
Now if you are in the basement looking up to the right the joists are all 16" center up to this joist, then going to the left the next joist after this notched out one there is another joist 12" on center away then another one 9" away from that one...then they go back to 16" center.

given the pipe size I may have to take more out of the upper notch so my question is this;

1) how much is this joist really doing anyway ?

2) is the next one being 12" away any value because if you figure the notched one wasnt there the span from good joist to good joist in that spot would be 26" center

3) is there a way to strenghten this notched joist ?

pls only tell me a way IF you really know as I have had lots of "opinions" from people who really dont know

thank you

bob22

A picture would really help improve things.

cvcman

how do you attach pics ??

cvcman

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r...oistsister.jpg

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r...tchedjoist.jpg

here ya go, there is a pic of each side of the joist. I thought about putting a 12ft 2x6 in there up tigh against the floor and bolting it to the original joist then putting a double 2 x 6 cut down block under the end that rests on the outside wall and the end that rests on the center steel beam.
Not sure how important this is anyway again its been no problem in over 50 yrs

tony.g

If the notching is near the end of the joist, it shouldn't be a problem, as the bending stress is smallest near the end. The piece of 2x6 will help as well. Serious problems usually only occur when people notch and drill joists near mid-span.
If it's been no problem for 50 years, why bother?

cvcman

Tony, what are you basing this info on ? Again I am kinda looking for responses from pros who know for sure, no offence if you fall into this catagory

Daniel Holzman

Tony.g is correct. The bending stress on a uniformly loaded structural member is very low at the ends, the bending stress is maximum at mid span. The vertical shear stress is maximum on either end, however shear almost never controls in residential work, joist and beam design normally is governed by the extreme fiber bending stress at the midpoint of the span. If you have half or more of your joist remaining (I could not tell from the photo exactly how much you have left) you should be fine as is. But since you have had so many opinions from people you do not trust, why bother asking on an internet forum where you cannot verify the credentials of anyone, you are going to get multiple opinions, and no one has seen your house?

cvcman

good point but sometimes it easy to "weed out" the people who are opinion only sometime not

I do have abut a 3ft pc of 2 x 6 sistered on the back side and it is nailed and olted to the notched out joist..Again im not sure it ould even bother if the joist was gone all together...its a single story ranch with 1" plywood floors and there is another joist very close to this one

CrossWorks

This still needs to be done. Pictures will answer many questions before their asked. Although your description is detailed, as a builder it's easier to understand the issue when you have your EYE on the situation.

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cvcman

???? I posted two pics above, click the photobucket link

CrossWorks

Oops, I guess I just scrolled right by!


Based on what I see, can you add a 4x4 on either side of the waste pipe? Because there is no question the integrity of that joist has been compromised.

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cvcman

no not really, also there is a 2 x 8 real close on the right side,again this has been this way for 50 yrs

CrossWorks

Well I guess at the very least, you could go to your local lumber yard and purchase some GRK 3-1/2" lag screws [which ARE structural] and a star bit [black] for the lags.

Screw 4 on each side of the notch into the 2x8 that was put in place.
I'd say use a square pattern. 1" down from the top and 1" up from the bottom 12" apart.

In this case I would of suggested the 3-1/8" lag but that may not be a stock item in the lumber yard. 3-1/2" is more common.

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cvcman

the sisterd pc is a 2 x 6, the original joist is a 2 x 8, i bolted the two together, with nuts and bolts, also nalied on the ends