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Not loving the basement pole

34K views 80 replies 19 participants last post by  seamus Mc 
#1 · (Edited)
Well I've searched on this forum and have found a few threads that helped but I wanted to throw this out there. I am looking to put a pool table in the basement. There is one....only one but very annoying pole
in the way.
I have attached a photo. Question is can I remove or even relocate the pole as per the photo ?? Even 2 feet closer to the wall would help.

Any advice would be appreciated..Great forum btw :)

Cheers

Dave

 
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#3 ·
In a word--NO

As you know any thing can be done if you have enough money.

If you want to give it a go -this is how it's done--

In order to move the pole -first you must temporarily support the house with cribbing and two temporary beams(one on either side of the existing beam.

Next -remove old beam and post(s) Dispose of old beam,

Buy and install new heavier beam ,sized for the longer span.

open concrete floor-dig and pour new concrete footings..

Relocate column.

Remove two temporary beams and cribbing.

Rebuild ceilings,walls and floor-paint -tile --now you're ready to set up the pool table!!!! Easy,take a crew of four less than two weeks>maybe--
 
#5 ·
Thanks for the replies....Much appreciated...Curious but any idea of the cost of new I Beam ?? I would have no clue...lol...

I realise there is a huge labour cost...But curious as to the cost of the beam.

Cheers

Dave
You would first hire an engineer to tell you what size beam you would need. It's cost would be only a small part of the entire cost of the job. Out of curiosity, you could go down to the local iron works and get prices for all the sizes available for your length.
Ron
 
#6 ·
It's been a long time since I bought or hung any steel. With google you can likely find an answer.

I hope you realize I was just joking around,If the day ever comes that you can design and build you own house the cost of long spans is one design feature I'll bet you will spring for.--MIKE--
 
#7 ·
There is no doubt that if I do ever design my own house, there wont be a pole in sight...

So I'll be honest and thought your reply was legit. I am by no means a reno king which is why I posed the question. I figured the 2 weeks of work was way off. But hey I'll admit this isnt my thing..

Really what I am looking for is this sort of mod gonna cost me $1000 or $10000. If its $10k then obviously I would spend my $$ elsewhere. If its
under $3k then I would think about it..

Cheers

Dave

It's been a long time since I bought or hung any steel. With google you can likely find an answer.

I hope you realize I was just joking around,If the day ever comes that you can design and build you own house the cost of long spans is one design feature I'll bet you will spring for.--MIKE--
 
#8 ·
What's above the beam ?
One floor, 2 ? Roof loads ?
Prices vary widely by area & by the person doing the work
There is no way anyone can give you anything close to a correct estimate
It could be between $3-10k
Getting the beam in there is usually one problem
In some case the entire house is lifted up to put a new beam in
Or a hole cut in a wall

I needed (3) 16" LVL's to support 2 floors & roof loads - 22' span
And that is with a post in the middle
17' isn't as bad....but still a long span

If you want a correct estimate call a couple local people to come out & look & figure it out
 
#9 ·
main floor above, then a supporting wall that goes up to 2nd floor veranda by stair case..
I'll be getting in touch with someone tomorrow to setup a time to have a look.

Thanks for the reply.

Dave

What's above the beam ?
One floor, 2 ? Roof loads ?
Prices vary widely by area & by the person doing the work
There is no way anyone can give you anything close to a correct estimate
It could be between $3-10k
Getting the beam in there is usually one problem
In some case the entire house is lifted up to put a new beam in
Or a hole cut in a wall

I needed (3) 16" LVL's to support 2 floors & roof loads - 22' span
And that is with a post in the middle
17' isn't as bad....but still a long span

If you want a correct estimate call a couple local people to come out & look & figure it out
 
#10 ·
Before you go too far, you really should find out exactly what the size and type of the existing beam is. There is always the chance that the beam was sized for 17 foot span, not the 13 foot span. Of course, if it were sized for 17 feet, it would be unusual to have put a post in at 13 feet, but the only way to know is to open the beam covering and see exactly what you have.

It is also possible that the existing beam could be made larger by adding to the side of the beam, I did a project like that in a house where the main wood beam had sustained water damage. We added a pair of 2x12 LVL beams to the outside of the existing beam (one on each side), bolted through, and were able to do it without removing the existing beam or even jacking the beam up. A clever contractor can do some pretty good work, but as noted, the sizing of the beam is typically done by an engineer.
 
#11 ·
Hey Daniel, thanks ever so much for the detailed reply. I went over to the neighbors house, same as mine and figured out why that pole is there. Directly above that ibeam where the support pole is, is another i beam sitting on top of it running right angle to the front of the house. That i beam is directly below my first floor dining room wall which also supports the load of the 2nd floor hallway.
I guess they put that pole directly under where the 2 beams intersect.

I guess its time to get an engineer in to have a look at my options..

Thanks again.

Dave
 
#13 ·
I'm gonna take a stab at this one! That beam, because it is offset from center, my guess is that's picking up a point load, as somebody already said talk to an engineer. Dead loads and live loads are tricky enough, point loads are tough to play with in basements where head heights are always a concern, if that is what it is.
 
#14 ·
I recently moved a support column in my basement. My case involved moving it about 4 ft so it could be hidden in a wall. I had an engineer come in
(~$300 bucks) and do all the calculations and tell me what I needed to do to support the new column. It was money very well spent, he even told me where to go to buy the column. He specified a sched 40 column which you can't usually find at the big home stores.
 
#17 ·
Thanks for the insight...I have been trying to contact a structural guy all day.. I guess they are in high demand...

Cheers

Dave

I recently moved a support column in my basement. My case involved moving it about 4 ft so it could be hidden in a wall. I had an engineer come in
(~$300 bucks) and do all the calculations and tell me what I needed to do to support the new column. It was money very well spent, he even told me where to go to buy the column. He specified a sched 40 column which you can't usually find at the big home stores.
 
#15 ·
I installed tables for awhile you need 5' around perimeter for que length or short sticks. have installed many a table with your problem and our motto is everyone has the same disadvantage. altho not perfect tou are losing only a small corner
 
#22 ·
For those of you who are interested, I spent a bit of time this evening opening it up for the engineer..

You can see the other beam that rests on top but it isnt directly under the support pole in question. Its actually 1.5 ft closer to the wall. Hopefully that may help.









Cheers

Dave
 
#23 ·
My guess is 14" was max span on that size beam, if you are determined to move it and since you have already torn it out, I would ask the engineer if you can build your own beam out of either 2x10's or 2x12's using 3 with 1/2" plywood in between glued and nailed. Contractors build a lot of beams this way here. I would think you would just have to go thick enough to carry the load and go ahead and conceal it in the wall and be rid of it. It may be cheaper to build your own. Good luck, let us know what engineer says, I am curious now. lol:)
 
#25 ·
My guess is 14" was max span on that size beam, if you are determined to move it and since you have already torn it out, I would ask the engineer if you can build your own beam out of either 2x10's or 2x12's using 3 with 1/2" plywood in between glued and nailed. Contractors build a lot of beams this way here. I would think you would just have to go thick enough to carry the load and go ahead and conceal it in the wall and be rid of it. It may be cheaper to build your own. Good luck, let us know what engineer says, I am curious now. lol:)
Generally, when steel is used on a SFR, it is because the loads are substantial. I would not bet that an engineer would replace what looks like a W10 with three pieces of dimensional lumber. You are either going to lose head room, or meet some Ironworkers
 
#29 ·
Might not be to bad after all

Keep us tuned in-The pictures helped a lot-I have some ideas but I think they are best left unsaid.

The engineer should be able to figure this out-Looks like a job that can be done for a lot less than my first guess.
 
#31 ·
Yeah the engineer loved the photos as well. He said he has a few ideas that should work in this situation. So looking forward to seeing what he comes up with.

Cheers

Dave

Keep us tuned in-The pictures helped a lot-I have some ideas but I think they are best left unsaid.

The engineer should be able to figure this out-Looks like a job that can be done for a lot less than my first guess.
 
#32 ·
Your support is a telescoping adjustable steel column. According to Arlene Puentes, October Home Inspections
http://www.octoberhome.com/articles/adjustcolumn/adjustcolumn.html
this type of column is not rated for permanent use as a support in the United States, rather it is intended as a temporary support during construction. You should check with your engineer as to the suitability of this particular column for your house, you may find that

1) The column was installed as a temporary measure and is not necessary
2) You need to use a different type of column to support the load
3) Your particular jurisdiction allows the use of telescoping steel columns for permanent support, and you can reuse the column at a different location.
 
#33 ·
It's hard to tell by the pic's but is there a break in the beam above the post? It seems funny that there is another support post so close (the one inside the wall). If there is no break in the beam above the support column and the beam is continous across this span and if it is a W10, I would ask the engineer if the support is even needed. I looks about like a 20' span or so to the support inside the wall. I'm not sure if this beam will span this, but it would certainly be worth asking, It sure would be nice for you if you find out the beam is continous and will support the load without the post, of course you will also have to let him look at what is above it, could be they thru it in for something heavy directly above. If you find out its not really needed, sure would be a lot easier for you and you could just move it next to the other one in the wall and double the support inside the wall where its hidden. Good luck!
 
#34 ·
Dave -

Keep in mind there are really two different criteria used for a good design.

1. The simplest and easiest to use is just the strength.

2. The second and very often is the deflection (static or dynamic), which can reduce the livability, comfort and increase cracks in walls/drywall. This is not as simple as a strength calculation.

You may find that the strength of what is in there is adequate structurally, but modifications may have been done to make the floors system more livable or salable.

I guarantee that is the post is relocated the floor system above will bounce and react differently. Whether the results are satisfactory for you is a different question.

Dick
 
#38 ·
Great detailed reply here, I guess what it comes down to is making sure that if I did move that pole the house isnt going to cave in over time..

I'm pretty sure that if I removed that pole things would be okay...BUT I am also smart enough to realise that decision is out of my league.

Usually when that is the case, I head to the internet to gain some knowledge. This site looked great and is now definitely in my favourites.

You guys have lead me in the right direction, which was to bring a professional in to assess. You have also given me enough knowledge to allow me to ask the right questions. So thanks for that

I am interested now to see what it will take.

Ever since we bought the house, I hated that pole. But we never used this side of the basement so it wasnt a problem. Now that time has come.

Who will win...?? The pole or the me ?? Well we should find out shortly..:thumbsup:

I was sitting down there last night trying to visualize some of the design I wanted to do and it appeared to be laughin at me..lol..But once I stripped its casing away it knew I was serious...

thanks again

Dave




Dave -

Keep in mind there are really two different criteria used for a good design.

1. The simplest and easiest to use is just the strength.

2. The second and very often is the deflection (static or dynamic), which can reduce the livability, comfort and increase cracks in walls/drywall. This is not as simple as a strength calculation.

You may find that the strength of what is in there is adequate structurally, but modifications may have been done to make the floors system more livable or salable.

I guarantee that is the post is relocated the floor system above will bounce and react differently. Whether the results are satisfactory for you is a different question.

Dick
 
#35 ·
Concrete masonery, you have a good point, all good questions to ask the engineer, that's why he gets the big bucks. I am building a log home and I know a little about running spans with large timbers, so I just throw ideas out there, another one would be beefing up the beam by building wooden beams ( 3-2x10's or 2x12's with 1/2 plywood glued and tacked between) and putting one on each side of the beam for additional support. Easy to drywall over and you leave the steel intact, of course this is assuming there is no break in the steel beam above the pole, If there is a breakl, that is a whole different ballgame. Just ideas to ask the engineer.
 
#36 ·
Very good points on the floor above/bounce etc
I went to the next higher I-joist in my great room ceiling/attic floor to make sure I had the min deflection
It wasn't a matter of meeting code, I wanted to minimize or eliminate any drywall cracking on the ceiling

So make sure the deflection is taken into account on any changes
 
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