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-   -   Non-Load Bearing Wall Window Framing? (http://www.diychatroom.com/f19/non-load-bearing-wall-window-framing-61513/)

ericht 01-10-2010 01:09 PM

Non-Load Bearing Wall Window Framing?
 
Hi everyone. I was hoping someone could help me out with a little problem i have.

I am in the process of building an extension with a flat roof. It is a 16'x24' room with a flat roof. I am using 2x12 rafters which span the 16' length. The 2 side supporting the ends of the rafters, and a third side supporting the tie in for the existing roof is load bearing. The 4th side is not because there is no overhang or roof extending over the wall. In fact, that portion of the room was supposed to be a covered deck, but plans changed, and a wall was built under the last rafter. The wall was not necessary.

My question is: For that wall under the last rafter, can i build it as a partition wall in terms of window headers? The roof should not have much deflection, so it should not apply much load on the wall right? Please keep in mind sagging over time, and settling of the foundation. Keep in mind that the span of the rafters are rated for over 21' , and the largest window is 8'. Thanks!


There is no snow where i live

ericht 01-12-2010 10:17 PM

bump

anybody, please

Scuba_Dave 01-12-2010 10:24 PM

Do you have a picture of the existing area ?

If its a flat roof all sides are load bearing to a point
The ends that the rafters land on carry majority of the load

jlhaslip 01-12-2010 10:34 PM

I need a picture.

is the wall in question under the length of the rafter?
at 16 ft span, using 1/320 deflection, the rafter will deflect about 5/8ths of an inch. I would be using structural headers.
talk to an Engineer or Building inspector. We really can't help you.

ericht 01-12-2010 10:53 PM

Thanks for the responses.

Something else... The rafters can span 16' with a L/720 deflection. They are grade 1 douglas fir 2x12s. If you look at the pic, you could consider the two full studs to be load bearing, so the span is actually 8' if that is the case. Also, the rafter the wall sits under is doubled up.

http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/9526/dscf0046nx.jpg

Thanks

ericht 01-12-2010 10:58 PM

fixed image size

:)

jlhaslip 01-12-2010 11:04 PM

I think you best be talking to a Building Inspector for your area, or possibly an Engineer.
You didn't mention the mid-span support. In my area, openings over 6 ft need a pair of cripples and larger than 12 ft requires 3 at each end. Different codes, but we build for 100 lb per sq ft Snow loads or greater.

ericht 01-13-2010 12:02 AM

Thanks JLhaslip

So when you guys look at the rafters in pic, would this typically be a "load-bearing" wall? I just figured that this would be the same as building a partition under one of the inner rafters. For every other wall, i built them with real headers, but for this wall, space was tight, and i assumed it was not load bearing, so i framed it as a partition.

Scuba_Dave 01-13-2010 07:01 AM

So 16' total & you used #1 wood , & doubled up the rafter over the wall
Then you have (2) 2x's at 36" in from each end ?
So that middle span is 12'....but you will only have 8' of windows ?
Can you add another double support in the middle & then 4' of window on either side?

Not an engineer, but based on the way you have built it I'd say its pretty sturdy
I would have added headers over each window instead of the cripple studs above the windows
I also see a lateral brace running above the windows & below, required by code ?
Any earthquakes out there ?

In simplest design explanation you have placed a large double header over the entire thing which should carry the weight
No snow loads (?) - I know above 9,000' does get snow
So just maybe heavy rains to deal with...and as long as it drains well

I would not be too worried about it
Do youhave an Inspection process out there & did you have to submit plans ?

tpolk 01-13-2010 07:09 AM

if you threw a 2x6 header in there you would be in great shape, that is basic gable wall

MI-Roger 01-13-2010 07:16 AM

I think some type of header is required
 
From the picture it appears you have an 8-ft wide sliding vinyl window installed in the wall. Unless you have tied the short studs above the window to the doubled rafter with straps, gravity will cause the weight of the upper wall section to be carried by the vinyl window frame.

You really need to ask the local inspector, but my recommendations are:
  1. Install a header above the windows, or
  2. Use straps to structurally suspend, or "hang", the wall section above the windows from your doubled rafter.

canyonbc 01-13-2010 10:31 AM

As others have stated talking with an inspector or engineer is a must.

Personally either way I would put a header over it, I see it has long term insurance.

Would hate to see settling or something else lead to sagging or to much stress on the windows to where they would not open correctly.

I know you have built in but seems to me that easier to add a header now then 5 years say for example when it is drywalled and you have been using the space.

Just an opinion.

Scuba_Dave 01-13-2010 11:23 AM

I just noticed, there is Tyvek on the outside, no sheathing ?

ericht 01-13-2010 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scuba_Dave (Post 381982)
So 16' total & you used #1 wood , & doubled up the rafter over the wall
Then you have (2) 2x's at 36" in from each end ?
So that middle span is 12'....but you will only have 8' of windows ?
Can you add another double support in the middle & then 4' of window on either side?

Not an engineer, but based on the way you have built it I'd say its pretty sturdy
I would have added headers over each window instead of the cripple studs above the windows
I also see a lateral brace running above the windows & below, required by code ?
Any earthquakes out there ?

In simplest design explanation you have placed a large double header over the entire thing which should carry the weight
No snow loads (?) - I know above 9,000' does get snow
So just maybe heavy rains to deal with...and as long as it drains well

I would not be too worried about it
Do youhave an Inspection process out there & did you have to submit plans ?

To clarify things...
I now recall the wall is <16' due to the 2x4 wall framing on the ends. It is actually a little larger than 15'. My windows are 3' - 8' - 3'.

The lateral brace is not required, but i figured, with the limited full sized studs going up, it would be cheap insurance. Not many earthquakes out here, but several years ago, there was a earthquake on the volcanoes on the big island which knocked out power for the whole island of oahu for about a day.

Definitely no snow. Rain seems to flow well. I oversized the rafters to ensure no sagging on the roof since i have a limited slope as it is.

And the sheathing was put on after I took pic. I have plywood t1-11 on now.

ericht 01-13-2010 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MI-Roger (Post 381989)
From the picture it appears you have an 8-ft wide sliding vinyl window installed in the wall. Unless you have tied the short studs above the window to the doubled rafter with straps, gravity will cause the weight of the upper wall section to be carried by the vinyl window frame.

You really need to ask the local inspector, but my recommendations are:
  1. Install a header above the windows, or
  2. Use straps to structurally suspend, or "hang", the wall section above the windows from your doubled rafter.

I used 20d nails to nail the top plate to the rafter. I was not lenient on nails. You think straps will do the trick? So are we assuming that the weight exerted on the windows will come from the wall section, and not the roof? If so, i wouldnt think it would be too much of an issue because of the top plate nailing, and exterior sheathing holding everything together. Unless i'm missing something


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