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-   -   Newbie with a framing question. (http://www.diychatroom.com/f19/newbie-framing-question-17981/)

737Pilot 03-03-2008 08:34 PM

Newbie with a framing question.
 
Ok, a little background. My wife and I built our own house here in Houston. We used a CO similair to the Owner/builder network. Our house turned out great. I also built a big detached garage. 60'x30' My question has to do with the detached garage.

It is 2x4 exterior walls that are 10' tall. The rafters are 2x6. The front of the roof is a 7:12 pitch and the sides are 10:12 pitch (hip roof). The ceiling joists are BCI 400 12" laminated I-joists. They are on 16" centers. Here's my problem. The framers bevel cut the ends of the I-joists to accomidate the pitch of the roof rafters. I am curious as to how this affects the I-joists structural integrity. I don't have any dry wall yet in the garage because I want to know that the joists are OK before I hang 2 pounds per sq/ft. on it.

HOpe that was enough info for you all. Any ideas and or suggestions would be appreciated. I know that nobody can actually give "official" advice for liablity, but I am not looking to hold anyone liable for info. Thanks.

oldfrt 03-03-2008 09:43 PM

I believe the general rule of thumb here is not to cut the bevel beyond the inside face of the wall.


Try this link:http://www.ilevel.com/literature/COM-2000.pdf

737Pilot 03-03-2008 10:55 PM

That has some good info...Yeah, they did just that, bevel cut beyond the face plate. I have a total of 40 of these joists for my ceiling in my garage (30' long each) and I don't know how to calculate their strength now. I don't even know who to call to have them evaluate it. I wish I had some pictures of it so you all could see what I'm talking about. I wasn't smart enough to know that you don't bevel cut them beyond the face plate until the project was over with and since I was the general, I'm responsible!

cebeling 03-09-2008 11:25 PM

Hi - I have a similar post up on a smaller scale. 2x6 ceiling joists spanning 24 feet. The great members of this site gave me some insight on how to frame in structure to support drywall/insulation. Look for the "Garage Framing" post....

Double A 03-10-2008 12:47 PM

Contact the manufacturer and they can put you in touch with their area rep/engineer. If not, they can get you in touch with an engineer in your area that is familiar with their product.

This person can recommend solutions and/or calculate loads for the present conditions.

troubleseeker 03-10-2008 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Double A (Post 106148)
Contact the manufacturer and they can put you in touch with their area rep/engineer. If not, they can get you in touch with an engineer in your area that is familiar with their product.

This person can recommend solutions and/or calculate loads for the present conditions.

The manufacturer's in house engineeer will recommend a solution to you. Usually they will require a 3/4" plywood gusset on each side of the web. Be sure to get a stamped drawing or letter from them for the building inspector.

737Pilot 03-10-2008 10:55 PM

I posted this same subject on the contractortalk.com site and they closed the thread, but I had some pictures up for anyone who wants to see the joists. http://www.contractortalk.com/showthread.php?t=35696 Thanks again for any info.

Chris Johnson 03-11-2008 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by troubleseeker (Post 106382)
The manufacturer's in house engineeer will recommend a solution to you. Usually they will require a 3/4" plywood gusset on each side of the web. Be sure to get a stamped drawing or letter from them for the building inspector.


:thumbsup:

troubleseeker 03-11-2008 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 737Pilot (Post 106434)
I posted this same subject on the contractortalk.com site and they closed the thread, but I had some pictures up for anyone who wants to see the joists. http://www.contractortalk.com/showthread.php?t=35696 Thanks again for any info.

The cuts in those pics will almost certainly be gigged by the inspector. The top of the bevel is not allowed to be further in than the inside of the plate, as someone posted, whether it is dimension lumber or manufactured joists. The architect/home designer should know better, and should not have had a detail like this shown on any building section, and the framers should have known better, and called it to someone's attention. The proper detail is to lay a "raised plate" on top of the joists, and set the rafter bird mouths onto this plate.

Chris Johnson 03-11-2008 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by troubleseeker (Post 106827)
The cuts in those pics will almost certainly be gigged by the inspector. The top of the bevel is not allowed to be further in than the inside of the plate, as someone posted, whether it is dimension lumber or manufactured joists. The architect/home designer should know better, and should not have had a detail like this shown on any building section, and the framers should have known better, and called it to someone's attention. The proper detail is to lay a "raised plate" on top of the joists, and set the rafter bird mouths onto this plate.


Again :thumbsup:

and the raised plate helps keep all the rafter tails perfectly straight

737Pilot 03-12-2008 05:25 PM

In a perfect world, I guess all that wouldn't have gone over looked. Unfortunately, it was my first build as a contractor I obviously didn't know better until it was too late. I am now having to rectify the situation. I have contacted the manufacturer of the I-joists and am talking with one of their engineers. He seems skeptical about fixing it with out putting some support underneath, which for me, I am hoping to avoid hence the reason I wanted a 30' deep garage that was clear of any support beams!

He also recommened that I consult a structural engineer that has a background in wood. I have no idea where to begin to look for one of them.

I am NOT an engineer but am very curious as to how 2x4 trusses that are to carry snow loads in Colorado look much whimpier than what I have here in my garage. If they can make a "w" shaped truss, why would I not be able to convert mine to the same type of design using the existing beams to be structurally sound? We don't have snow here in Houston, but we have hurricanes and it survived Hurricane Rita, so I imagine that there is a solution to this with out having to tear down the garage!

Thanks for all the feed back everyone, I appreciate it. Please keep the opinions coming. Thank you.

USP45 03-12-2008 06:25 PM

Trouble seeker, we had a simillar problem once and thats what the engineer had us do. Glue and screw 3/4" plates of plywood onto both sides. But by all means check with a structural engineer.

troubleseeker 03-12-2008 09:57 PM

[quote=737Pilot;107030] I have contacted the manufacturer of the I-joists and am talking with one of their engineers. He seems skeptical about fixing it with out putting some support underneath, which for me, I am hoping to avoid hence the reason I wanted a 30' deep garage that was clear of any support beams!

He also recommened that I consult a structural engineer that has a background in wood. I have no idea where to begin to look for one of them.

/quote]

Sounds like you may have gotten hold of a lazy engineer, not wanting to take a litttle time to solve your problem, when he would just rather spend his time looking up span tables and specifying joist depths for plans they are trying to sell their product for. You may have to work your way up the food chain in the dept.
As for his recommendation, that'spretty funny:laughing: , considering that he is an in house engineer for a manufacturer of WOOD I joists. What is his background...structural bridge iron?

Even though it was a mistake on your part, they should work with you on a remedy; this a pretty common occurance, and should take any competant manufacturer's engineer no more than an hour to run the numbers on, and recommend a fix. As in house for the manufacturer, he should be able to spit the factory design specs for your particular josit out of his head, instead of trying to have you pay a private engineer to crunch the numbers from scratch.

737Pilot 03-13-2008 11:20 AM

Troubleseeker, I agree! While the manufacturer guy has taken my calls, he seems almost sure that there is no fix....he just keeps saying "they should have never done that, those are too small, blah blah blah"...I know that, that is why I am calling him!! He's a little helpful, but I don't feel I'm getting anywhere with him. He says he can't really calculate all the loads because he doesn't know if the 2x6's for the rafters are good lumber or not!? I don't know what that means.

Anyway, I contacted a structural engineer here in Houston and for a hefty fee of 450 bucks, he's gonna come out and give me a solution. He seemed a lot more optimistic than the manufacturer guy. I'll keep you posted on what they say. Thanks again.

Double A 03-13-2008 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 737Pilot (Post 107246)
He says he can't really calculate all the loads because he doesn't know if the 2x6's for the rafters are good lumber or not!? I don't know what that means.

Tell the dink no, its not good lumber. A judge sentenced them to 40 years of incarceration in your garage structure with no chance of parole for growing in an unauthorized area and 'cracking wise' when they shouldn't have been.

"I think the trouble started with they started hanging around with that girl, 'Poison Ivy'. They was good trees up til then."

Went good wood goes bad, tonight on 60 Minutes, sponsered by.... Viagra.


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