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Old 10-20-2010, 11:20 AM   #1
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New roof woes!


Good day,

My attached garage's low-slope roof was leaking for years (even before I purchased the house) and I just recently had the available funds to get a contractor to replace it with a sloped roof (too much rot to salvage). The roof looks great from the outside, but when I am looking from the inside of the garage at the area where the new roof meets the outside wall, the contractors have notched some of the rafters, presumeably to make the roof come down at a level and even slant. I can assume by their actions that the wall at the far end of the garage is higher than at the near end. I have attached a MS Paint "etch-a-sketch" drawing to try to better illustrate what I am trying to describe! The rafters go from un-notched at the far end of the garage, and gradually get more and more notched as the roof comes to the near end.

My question is how do I finish off the wall (currently just exposed studs) when there is about a 4" void from where the studs/header end and the ceiling (currently exposed rafters) begin? And is there a way I can avoid having the wall look like its gradually getting higher?

Thanks, and please take into consideration I am basically a DIY'er with no formal training in the construction industry!

Thanks for any advise you can provide!

- Joe
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New roof woes!-roof_rafters.jpg  

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Old 10-20-2010, 08:24 PM   #2
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New roof woes!


I guess these guys missed the birds mouth seminar. How did they attach the roof rafter to the top plate? Did they use any metal plate hardware to build this? Hurricane ties? Strapping? Joist hangers?
Ron

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Old 10-20-2010, 09:01 PM   #3
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New roof woes!


I just checked and there is no metal hardware attaching the rafters to the top plate. What they have done is nailed the new rafters to the old low-slope roof rafters that haven't been removed yet! They just built the new roof over top of the old one and I was basically cutting out the old one from the inside of the garage. The old roof rafters run across the width of the garage (about 12') and lay almost horizontal on the top plate. The new roof rafters are coming down from a ledger board on the side of my house and land just next to the old rafters. They nailed thru the new rafters onto the old ones. Once I cut those old rafters out there will be nothing but gravity holding the roof in place!

This is a bigger problem than I realized! How do I go about properly affixing the new roof onto the top plate? Is there any hardware that I can use to securely attach the new roof to the top plate that will solve my problems?

I really don't want my roof blowing away in a storm or come crashing in on me or my family!

Dazed and Confused!

- Joe
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Old 10-20-2010, 09:32 PM   #4
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New roof woes!


These guys didn't pull a permit, did they?
You can fill in the missing framing by cutting wedges that fit tightly between the rafter and the top plate. Then cut 3/4" plywood and sandwich each rafter unit as it were a truss. Use construction adhesive and nail on each plate using 6d framing nails. To each rafter unit attach hurricane ties and nail appropriately.
Ron
I would add "L" brackets to each of the rafters which would get through bolted to both the rafter and the top plate. Two "L" brackets per rafter, the largest you can fit. And as Dave said, you need collar ties to keep the rafters from splaying out.

Last edited by Ron6519; 10-21-2010 at 09:27 AM. Reason: Added info
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Old 10-20-2010, 09:44 PM   #5
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New roof woes!


Thanks Ron., and No, I didn't see any building permits come to think of it!

Just to be clear on the steps to take to correct this mess;

I cut out wedges to fill the void and use 3/4" plywood on both sides of the rafter to keep these wedges in place, using construction adhesive and 6d nails. Once this is complete I use hurricane ties to attach the rafters to the top plate. I assume I use the hurricane ties on the inside, as the outside is not accessable.

Correct?

Thanks Ron...I really appreciate your advice!

- Joe

BTW: I had a look at some Simpson Hurricane ties. There are alot to choose from! Can you recommend the specific type that would best fit with my repairs?

Thanks again...

Last edited by jlatulippe; 10-20-2010 at 10:12 PM. Reason: Added details
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Old 10-20-2010, 10:33 PM   #6
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New roof woes!


Are there any collar ties or rafter ties to keep the new roof from pushing the walls out ?
Is the old roof complete w/shingles ?

Or is it just the rafters left ?
Those would work as rafter ties to keep the walls from spreading
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Old 10-20-2010, 10:51 PM   #7
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New roof woes!


No rafter or collar ties. The old roof "was" intact with shingles, but after the new roof was "complete" I used a ricprocating saw from the inside to basically cut the the old roof out, but leaving about two feet of old rafter on the end that attached to the outside wall on top of the top plate. I just started to remove these last reminances of the old roof when I noticed that they were nailed to the new rafters and that was all that was attaching it to the outside wall (the new roof rafters nailed to whats left of the old roof rafters, and the old roof rafters nailed to the top plate of the outside wall). I'd consider just leaving all this intact, but the old rafters are pretty ripe and would like to remove all this old rotted lumber and attach it properly and clean it all up so I can finish the interior walls.

What I can't understand is the fact that the contractors absolutely new that the old roof was going to be removed, but just nailed the new rafters to the old rafters anyway!

Do you have the same recommendation as Ron provided?

Thanks,

- Joe
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Old 10-21-2010, 08:57 AM   #8
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New roof woes!


I'm a little confused based on the following.
-you knew the roof was bad
-you hired a contractor to make changes
-you have (apparently) paid the contractor

Seems with the steps you are now doing, you have a fair knowledge of the roof , repair and what the end result was/is supposed to be.

Have you talked with the contractor? How long after you paid did you realize the issue with nailing new rafters with old rafters, and no birds mouth?

I think Ron's approach is what can be done physically, but shouldn't you at least talk to the contractor?
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Old 10-21-2010, 06:41 PM   #9
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New roof woes!


I am a bit fed up with this contractor. We hired him to do two jobs for us - replace our asphalt roof, and build the sloped roof over our low slope garage roof. He came highly recommended and friends of ours had similar work completed by him with good results. The house roof wasn't leaking, but the shingles were showing significant wear and some were blowing off the house. They replaced the asphalt roof and built the new roof over the garage. We paid him in full for the jobs. Two weeks later a fair bit of rain hit and our asphalt roof (which didn't originally leak) began to leak, basically ruining the ceiling in a recently renovated upstairs bath. He came and made some repairs (said they had missed caulking by a dormer). A couple more weeks went by and after another rain it was still leaking, as well as a leak in the new garage roof! Came out again and found the problem and repaired the house roof, but took two more trips before finding and repairing the garage roof (flashing issue).

Bottom line is that I'd rather do some research and find the best method of repairing the current problems and do it myself, than to have him touch anything any more. I simply don't trust his work!
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Old 10-21-2010, 06:53 PM   #10
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New roof woes!


Regardig the need for collar ties I actually built collar ties of sorts. I wanted to create a cold zone in the garage with the new sloped roof, so I lag bolted a ledger board about 2' down from the the ledger board on the new roof and ran 2x6's horizontally across to meet each roof rafter. I used joist hangers on the ledger board and Simpson mending plates (like you see on roof trusses) to join the horizontal joists to the roof rafters. These collar ties are about 48" long from the ledger board to the roof rafter.

Would this qualify as collar ties?

Thanks,

- Joe

BTW - I wasn't aware until reading more construction/framing jargon what "collar ties" were, and thats why I stated there were no collar ties in reply to Dave's post. I am not even sure what I did qualifies as collar ties, but wanted to clarify just the same...

Last edited by jlatulippe; 10-21-2010 at 06:57 PM. Reason: Correction
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Old 10-21-2010, 07:58 PM   #11
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New roof woes!


Quote:
Originally Posted by jlatulippe View Post
Regardig the need for collar ties I actually built collar ties of sorts. I wanted to create a cold zone in the garage with the new sloped roof, so I lag bolted a ledger board about 2' down from the the ledger board on the new roof and ran 2x6's horizontally across to meet each roof rafter. I used joist hangers on the ledger board and Simpson mending plates (like you see on roof trusses) to join the horizontal joists to the roof rafters. These collar ties are about 48" long from the ledger board to the roof rafter.

Would this qualify as collar ties?

Thanks,

- Joe

BTW - I wasn't aware until reading more construction/framing jargon what "collar ties" were, and thats why I stated there were no collar ties in reply to Dave's post. I am not even sure what I did qualifies as collar ties, but wanted to clarify just the same...
Post pictures of what you did regarding the collar ties.
When the contractor did this,"(said they had missed caulking by a dormer). " that is the response of an idiot.
But you know that now.
Ron
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Old 10-21-2010, 08:48 PM   #12
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New roof woes!


I couldn't agree more Ron! I guess you can see why I don't want these "boobs" back!

I had to crop a portion off the bottom of the picture to make it fit to upload, but nothing worth mentioning below there anyway. The "etch-a-sketch" drawing isn't to scale, of course, but the measurements I added are close..

The roof rafters and roof ledger board is 2"x8"s, with the second ledger board and horizontal *collar ties* that I installed made of 2"x6"s...the "band-ade attaching the horizontal *collar tie* to the roof rafters are Simpson Mending plates (one on each side of the collar tie).

Thanks guys!

- Joe
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New roof woes!-garage.jpg  

Last edited by jlatulippe; 10-21-2010 at 08:52 PM. Reason: added detail
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Old 10-21-2010, 09:31 PM   #13
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New roof woes!


Collar ties are usually run to the sides of the rafter, overlapping them. They are then nailed together. I don't know if your method has an adequate holding power.
The top plate/rafter connections and the collar tie connections are part of a structural system that keeps the wall where it belongs. Any weak link compromises the structure. That's the benefit of a permitted process. Someone oversees the project,who has no vested interest in profit, but only the correctness of the work.
Maybe one of the engineers can advise.
Ron
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Old 10-21-2010, 09:35 PM   #14
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New roof woes!


The OP mentioned removing parts of the old roof underneath. I hope nothing structural.
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Old 10-21-2010, 09:43 PM   #15
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New roof woes!


In my defence I really wasn't trying to add strength to the structure at the time. I was merely trying to create a method of ventilation for the roof by creating a cold zone (rafter vents/channels, gable vents and soffet vents) as well as insulation and a horizontal ceiling within the garage/rec room for lighting.

I was assuming that if I asked the contractor to build a roof over my low-slope garage roof, with my intention of removing the old roof, he would do it correctly...

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