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-   -   New Deck Question (http://www.diychatroom.com/f19/new-deck-question-6645/)

cibula11 02-22-2007 09:41 AM

New Deck Question
 
I am building a new deck and fence here in the next few months. I was wondering what material I should use for the deck. It will be probably 12x16 and nothing too fancy. I am probably not going to live in this house forever, but at least a few more years. I would like to add a fence along with this and think it would like the best if I used similar materials. Suggestions? I was thinking of cedar, but wanted some other opinions.

KUIPORNG 02-22-2007 09:53 AM

I would use those good quality composite material... even Yellowstone National Park use them.. this thing last and they can stand up the bad whether... cedar probaly last as well... but I think the composit material still beat it a bit in terms of weather proofing... I hate to go to a deck which is so worn out due to weather bombarment... although if you choose composite material, you need to watch out for the quality making sure it is the really lasting one... You will get your money back when selling the home with a lasting deck... on the other hand, if after a few years, your deck worn out, it becomes a liability as the new owner need to invest to take it down...

cibula11 02-22-2007 10:47 AM

For me, I enjoy the upkeep of my house so maintainence is not an issue. My dad put a pressure treated deck on about 15 years ago. Each summer he coats it with a weather proofer, and it still looks great. I don't mind putting a little effort into a deck. It's not like I have a 500 square foot area to deal with. Just something simple. Thanks for the feedback.

KUIPORNG 02-22-2007 10:52 AM

If you use cedar, I heard this material does not require painting... but once you do... you need to keep doing it...

cibula11 02-22-2007 11:11 AM

I have heard the same. I like the faint red color of cedar. Is cedar that much better than PT?

KUIPORNG 02-22-2007 11:44 AM

for sure
 
cedar for sure looks and felt better than PT... repainting everyyear to me for sure is a big deal... not only the paint cost money, you need to scrapt the old paint besides painting... so even cedar cost twice... I will use it rather than PT for sure...

cibula11 02-22-2007 12:25 PM

Do you mean stain or waterproof? Or do you really paint the deck with exterior paint?

KUIPORNG 02-22-2007 03:25 PM

either one is a pain
 
I understand for Cedar, you can choose to do nothing...

Brik 02-22-2007 04:25 PM

Hi - Cedar is a relatively soft wood. It also has a wide variety of qualities available. The cedar at Lowes and Homecheapo is the lowest grade. The higher grade will have very few knots, will be straighter, less splinters, etc. If I were considering cedar I would NOT do it with the stuff they sell at the places I mentioned.

You can also mix materials.
For example
Use Pressure Treated southern yellow pine (PT) for your sub structure, joists, beams, etc. Cedar for anything that will show.

Or, use PT for sub structure, cedar for posts, rails and trim. And use IPE for the deck. If you have never heard of Ipe you should google it. Its sometimes called Iron Wood. It makes a great deck. I would go this route because I think cedar can be too soft to walk on but a good grade cedar looks nice for the rest.

As for a finish. Many do nothing. I would NEVER consider paint for a deck. If you want a color you use a solid color stain. It will look sort of like paint but will never flake off. It can be re-coated w/o stripping. It does sort of chalk off. There are also semi-transparent stains and clear stains.

If you want a natural look but some protection a great product is called Penofin. Its a penetrating oil. Cabbots now has something similar called "Timber Oil".

Another neat wood for a deck is Mahogany. I built a custom rail for someone with it. It looks great. Also used the "deckorator" rails.

Brik 02-22-2007 04:26 PM

Oh, and I forgot, if shopping for cedar at real lumber yards they may also have different varieties such as Western Red, Northern White and so forth. They may also be able to get you what you want on special order pretty easily.

AtlanticWBConst. 02-22-2007 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brik (Post 34370)
You can also mix materials.
For example
Use Pressure Treated southern yellow pine (PT) for your sub structure, joists, beams, etc. Cedar for anything that will show.

Or, use PT for sub structure, cedar for posts, rails and trim. And use IPE for the deck. If you have never heard of Ipe you should google it. Its sometimes called Iron Wood. It makes a great deck. I would go this route because I think cedar can be too soft to walk on but a good grade cedar looks nice for the rest.

I agree with all the points that Brik made (his thoughts are my exact thoughts in regards to deck materials) Iron wood looks great for decking, so does Mahogony. As Brik said PT for all sub structure materials.

Another look to consider is wrapping the rim joists, stringers and risers in Composite white trim (Like in my current avatar) -

cibula11 02-22-2007 06:07 PM

Are PT decks horrible looking? I guess, if I lived in a high-end house I would go all out, but I live in a pretty simple house and don't want to go over board on my deck. But, like I said earlier I am doing a fence too, so I need something that looks good together.

AtlanticWBConst. 02-22-2007 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cibula11 (Post 34382)
Are PT decks horrible looking? I guess, if I lived in a high-end house I would go all out, but I live in a pretty simple house and don't want to go over board on my deck. But, like I said earlier I am doing a fence too, so I need something that looks good together.

No, they are not. There are many things that you can do to make them look better than the cookie cutter PT decks that were built in the 80's and 90's.

The deck in my Avatar is all PT. This one was built on a smaller materials budget. With that one, we used the composite boards for the trim....really dressed it up.
We used Tan colored deck screws. We used 2x8's for the top rail (Easier to set plates and cups on while BBQ-ing)
We only used the better lumber and purchased from one of the better lumberyards for stock. (Used all screws on the upper portion to help keep any boards from warping/twisting)
We notched out all posts so that the ballustrades ran flush on the surface. (to give it more of a custom and 'craftsman' look to it)

STAINING can make a PT deck look very different. There are many,many color stains out there that can really change the look of a PT built deck.

So, if you are on a budget, it can be done and still look good. No, it is nothing like a composite built deck (Composites over the PT subframe) - as you mentioned. these really fit the look of a higher end house that has the best of everything inside and out...

Sometimes, people want PT with composite deck boards...or, as mentioned, PT with Iron wood deck boards....these look nice, espcially if you add white trim boards. You can spend less and use painted white wood trim boards, rather than the white composit trim boards. PT decks can look great when they are maintained each season (regularly cleaned and preserved)...

troubleseeker 02-22-2007 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cibula11 (Post 34338)
I have heard the same. I like the faint red color of cedar. Is cedar that much better than PT?


Better spend lots of time admiring it the first month, because unfortunately Mother Nature will have it (the pretty cedar) grey just like any other wood used outside. I think the cedar is much more attractive than PT, has a lot less cupping and warping problems, and if it is a quality grade will last as long or longer than the PT. There is a great fallicy that because it is PT, it will last forever, hogwash. Now for the bad news, if you don't already know, the cedar costs more. For the price of the composites, I think they promise a lot more than they deliver; lots of mold/mildew/spotting/color degradation problems.

AtlanticWBConst. 02-22-2007 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by troubleseeker (Post 34450)
.... For the price of the composites, I think they promise a lot more than they deliver; lots of mold/mildew/spotting/color degradation problems.

I agree, too new, still issues arising: 'The jury is still out on composites'.... (IMHO)


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