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Old 02-29-2012, 09:07 PM   #1
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new ceiling joist and ledger question


I'm a DIY'er on a budget. We just repaired our kitchen ceiling after pulling out a recessed light box. We put in a 2x6 ledger and used 2x8 joist set into 2x6 joist hangars - used all the nail holes and set joist on 12" centers. Why? That's the lumber/supplies we had available. Did I get a permit for this? No, didn't think I needed it for repairs. Did I?

We did have our electrician pull a permit for new lighting and appliances. And will have our plumber pull permits for the sink relocation and new gas line. One of the plumbers coming to give a quote said he can't pull permits - so I suspect he isn't registered with the city, so will go with one of the plumbers that can. However, he said we'd have an issue with our ceiling because its not to code? Will we? I saw the posts about deck joist and ledgers, but his is just a ceiling that will have drywall and insulation on it - above it is the attic space under trusses.

The electrician has already put the new LED light boxes in. Will the inspector find an issue when he comes inspect the electrical?

Sorry for the long post, just trying to be detailed. Thanks!

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Old 02-29-2012, 09:12 PM   #2
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new ceiling joist and ledger question


Who knows, I know my inspector would never pass it.
Wrong ledger and wrong hangers.
For about $50.00 more it could have been done right.

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Old 02-29-2012, 10:43 PM   #3
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new ceiling joist and ledger question


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Originally Posted by joecaption View Post
Who knows, I know my inspector would never pass it.
Wrong ledger and wrong hangers.
For about $50.00 more it could have been done right.
Thanks joecaption. What would be the right joyce and hangers? Could you point me to the right section of the code? are you saying it should have been either 8" or 6" all around? The previous ceiling was 2x4, so I assume that would have been fine too?
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Old 02-29-2012, 11:32 PM   #4
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new ceiling joist and ledger question


Welcome to the forums!

The side ceiling joists have to support the replacement joists for the removed box. A picture or diagram would help immensely...
Some generic code: R802.9 Framing of openings. Openings in roof and ceiling framing shall be framed with header and trimmer joists. When the header joist span does not exceed 4 feet (1219 mm), the header joist may be a single member the same size as the ceiling joist or rafter. Single trimmer joists may be used to carry a single header joist that is located within 3 feet (914 mm) of the trimmer joist bearing. When the header joist span exceeds 4 feet (1219 mm), the trimmer joists and the header joist shall be doubled and of sufficient cross section to support the ceiling joists or rafter framing into the header. Approved hangers shall be used for the header joist to trimmer joist connections when the header joist span exceeds 6 feet (1829 mm). Tail joists over 12 feet (3658 mm) long shall be supported at the header by framing anchors or on ledger strips not less than 2 inches by 2 inches (51 mm by 51 mm). From; http://publicecodes.citation.com/ico...002_par030.htm

Of course, the existing may be under-sized to begin with, and adding new joists may require the trimmer joists to meet current code: http://publicecodes.citation.com/ico...002_par023.htm

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Old 02-29-2012, 11:37 PM   #5
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new ceiling joist and ledger question


http://www.awc.org/calculators/span/...rcalcstyle.asp

Unless you were framing something small like a closet those old 2 X 4's were not even close to being wide enough for a ceiling unless you were going something like a small closit.
It would have been far better to look at a span chart and see what was really needed for the span you working with.
http://www.awc.org/calculators/span/...rcalcstyle.asp

What you did may work out fine, but by using a smaller ledger and hangers then the joists may raise an eye brow when the inspector shows up.
He may just pop in and glance at the wiring and walk out and never notice.
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Old 03-01-2012, 12:40 AM   #6
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new ceiling joist and ledger question


Thank you GBR and Joecaption.

As I think I said, it's my kitchen ceiling. It is 10' wide. GBR, I'll review the tables and see if I can figure out how to upload a photo or diagram.

The most recent CA building code (2011) says

"Ceiling joists cannot be used to brace roof framing. Ceiling joists 2 x 6 and larger should be solidly blocked at ends unless nailed directly to rafters. Refer to the span tables for maximum allowable spans. Strongbacks are not given any credit when evaluating maximum span."

I'm not sure what a strongback is, but I know the ceiling is not nailed to the rafters.

From the span table, for the situation that sounds like ours I pulled this info. I don't know what the #2, #1 and SS DF refer to - I'm assuming quality of lumber?

CEILING JOISTS -- 20# LL - Uninhabitahble attics with limited storage, 20 psf live load
12 o.c. 16 o.c. 19.2 o.c. 24 o.c.
2x4 #2 DF 9 10 8 9 8 0 7 2
2x4 #1 DF 10 0 9 1 8 7 7 8
2x4 SS DF 10 5 9 6 811 8 3
__________________________________________________ ________________________________
2x6 #2 DF 1410 1210 11 9 10 6
2x6 #1 DF 15 9 13 9 12 6 11 2
2x6 SS DF 16 4 1411 14 0 13 0
__________________________________________________ ______________________________

If I understand it right, the 8' is sufficient for the span - but to build to code that GBR referenced, I have to either have an 8' that it attaches to or replace the joist w/6".

I do appreciate your assistance.
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Old 03-01-2012, 08:44 AM   #7
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new ceiling joist and ledger question


This sounds more like a dropped ceiling for cosmetics (hiding electrical, plumbing, HAVC, etc) since you said you had trusses. Is this accurate? Do you have true trusses supporting your roof and the build down is just to house mechanicals? I'm not sure how someone can say it is completely wrong without further information. A picture and diagrams would be highly helpful.
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Old 03-01-2012, 11:08 AM   #8
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new ceiling joist and ledger question


Thanks Robertcdf. I'll see if I can figure out how to upload photo. Hopefully I didn't use the wrong terminology. The roof rafters go up to a big beam at the ridge and then rest on walls that aren't part of the kitchen walls. There are some boards near the top that connect opposite rafters or laid crossways to connect parallel rafters - but not every board has it.
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Old 03-01-2012, 11:15 AM   #9
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http://www.carpentry-pro-framer.com/...mon-rafter.png

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